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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old March 10 2014, 05:36 AM   #1
RegalTrekkie
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A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

I am watching "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (1.03) and have noticed something that later Star Trek shows such as Star Trek: Voyager contradicts. At one point pretty early in the episode, Kirk instructs Mitchell to leave the galaxy at warp factor one. Later shows clearly indicate that leaving the galaxy would not be possible (not even at warp factor ten let alone at warp factor one). The whole premise of Star Trek: Voyager, for example, is that the crew gets stranded in a different quadrant of the galaxy, and the journey home is expected to take about seventy-five years. I am sure that there are other instances of this kind of writing error happening throughout the franchise, as well, but I am pointing this one out because I just caught it. It's so frustrating that the writers weren't more careful than that.
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Old March 10 2014, 05:57 AM   #2
Cyke101
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

RegalTrekkie wrote: View Post
I am watching "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (1.03) and have noticed something that later Star Trek shows such as Star Trek: Voyager contradicts. At one point pretty early in the episode, Kirk instructs Mitchell to leave the galaxy at warp factor one. Later shows clearly indicate that leaving the galaxy would not be possible (not even at warp factor ten let alone at warp factor one). The whole premise of Star Trek: Voyager, for example, is that the crew gets stranded in a different quadrant of the galaxy, and the journey home is expected to take about seventy-five years. I am sure that there are other instances of this kind of writing error happening throughout the franchise, as well, but I am pointing this one out because I just caught it. It's so frustrating that the writers weren't more careful than that.
I wouldn't be so hard on the writers about that one -- TOS was just starting to establish its identity, and really every show (Trek or otherwise) will have things that seem inconsistent with their earlier episodes. TOS is further unique in that it spawned a giant franchise, so there's greater differences than being concerned with a lone TV show.

With that said, I'm not sure when Roddenberry decided that the show should be a couple hundred years in the future (and thus try to make technological advancements seem realistic with that time frame) and/or when he decided that Trek should primarily be set in one galaxy. Later episodes tend to be a tad more consistent, but then the spinoffs and movies really cemented those consistencies as (mostly) hard rules.
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Old March 10 2014, 06:00 AM   #3
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

RegalTrekkie wrote: View Post
I am watching "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (1.03) and have noticed something that later Star Trek shows such as Star Trek: Voyager contradicts. At one point pretty early in the episode, Kirk instructs Mitchell to leave the galaxy at warp factor one. Later shows clearly indicate that leaving the galaxy would not be possible (not even at warp factor ten let alone at warp factor one). The whole premise of Star Trek: Voyager, for example, is that the crew gets stranded in a different quadrant of the galaxy, and the journey home is expected to take about seventy-five years. I am sure that there are other instances of this kind of writing error happening throughout the franchise, as well, but I am pointing this one out because I just caught it. It's so frustrating that the writers weren't more careful than that.
Were do they state that leaving the Galaxy would be impossible? And what does Voyager being in a different quadrant have to do with leaving the Galaxy?
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Old March 10 2014, 06:05 AM   #4
Maurice
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

Welcome to the board.

But...wrong.

You're proceeding from a false assumption. Your argument is like saying I can't leave the US in an hour because an airplane can't travel from Salt Lake City to Atlanta within an hour, forgetting that said plane could fly east from Atlanta out and over the coast and leave enter international airspace fairly quickly. Out where out Sun is the plane of the galactic disc is only about 3,000 light years thick. you can leave the "galaxy" pretty easily up going galactic north or south instead out along the plane of the disc. As Spock might say say, your "pattern indicates two dimensions thinking."
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Old March 10 2014, 07:04 AM   #5
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

Maurice wrote: View Post
Out where out Sun is the plane of the galactic disc is only about 3,000 light years thick. you can leave the "galaxy" pretty easily up going galactic north or south instead out along the plane of the disc.
If that's the case, then why does the barrier look more like it would along the plane of the disc? I would think a barrier on the top or bottom would look more like an endless plane.

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Old March 10 2014, 07:11 AM   #6
F. King Daniel
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

RegalTrekkie wrote: View Post
I am sure that there are other instances of this kind of writing error happening throughout the franchise, as well, but I am pointing this one out because I just caught it. It's so frustrating that the writers weren't more careful than that.
Take a look at the videos in my sig
(although if you really found that frustrating, they might totally ruin Trek for you)
Maurice wrote: View Post
Welcome to the board.

But...wrong.

You're proceeding from a false assumption. Your argument is like saying I can't leave the US in an hour because an airplane can't travel from Salt Lake City to Atlanta within an hour, forgetting that said plane could fly east from Atlanta out and over the coast and leave enter international airspace fairly quickly. Out where out Sun is the plane of the galactic disc is only about 3,000 light years thick. you can leave the "galaxy" pretty easily up going galactic north or south instead out along the plane of the disc. As Spock might say say, your "pattern indicates two dimensions thinking."
It's explicitly referred to as the "rim of the galaxy" when they return in "By Any Other Name".

Besides, several other time/distance examples in TOS, TAS, STV, STFC, ENT and STID render Voyager's premise moot. It's just one of those things - they wanted a crossing the galaxy to take a lifetime, so they changed it and pretended the prior examples didn't exist.
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Old March 10 2014, 08:59 AM   #7
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

Very often in TOS, you can see a lack of science knowledge in the writing. For example, there's a pretty big blooper in "All Our Yesterdays" when Spock says his home planet is "millions of light years away." That's wrong, and we rationalize it by saying Spock was out of his gourd at the time and speaking in hyperbole.

The TNG era brought in a new generation of science-literate advisers who were actual staff members, and not just some guy at NASA who traded occasional snail-mails with Roddenberry. That's why the Voyager writers had a much better handle on the true scale of things. The real-world galaxy is much bigger than anybody filming "Classic Cast Trek" ever realized.

Star Trek from the 1990s onward did have some big science howlers (like the magical Nexus in Generations), but those were usually knowing acts of dramatic liberty rather than uninformed accidents.
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Old March 10 2014, 09:46 AM   #8
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It's explicitly referred to as the "rim of the galaxy" when they return in "By Any Other Name".
"Galaxy edge" in WNMHGB.

None of it makes sense anyway. If you wanted to head to Andromeda that last thing you'd do is fly through the galactic plane to the "rim", because that's the wrong direction. It's inane...by any other name.

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
...not just some guy at NASA who traded occasional snail-mails with Roddenberry.
Not correct.

De Forest Research reviewed the scripts for all kind of issues, including science gaffes, and typically caught them, but the production didn't always heed their recommendations and sometimes script revisions didn't get sent to them.
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Old March 10 2014, 10:23 AM   #9
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

For as wide as the galaxy is, it isn't very thick. Leaving it or just getting to the 'edge' really doesn't take going all that far.
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Old March 10 2014, 10:50 AM   #10
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
For as wide as the galaxy is, it isn't very thick. Leaving it or just getting to the 'edge' really doesn't take going all that far.

If Wikipedia is correct, the thin disk of the Milky Way is 1000 light years thick.

So at most, our sun is 500 light years from the top or bottom edge. If you can go at 1000 times the speed of light, it's six months' travel to "leave the galaxy."

In WNM, Kirk apparently stopped just before the edge to take a Polaroid, and then said "Ahead warp factor one." Relatively speaking, that means ahead slow.
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Old March 10 2014, 11:10 AM   #11
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

Just FYI, Rigel is on the order of 900 light years from Earth.
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Old March 10 2014, 11:57 AM   #12
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

^ And Rigil Kent is just down the street!

So, how many Rigels were there in TOS?
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Old March 10 2014, 12:26 PM   #13
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

I thought this thread would be about James R. Kirk.
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Old March 10 2014, 01:34 PM   #14
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Very often in TOS, you can see a lack of science knowledge in the writing. For example, there's a pretty big blooper in "All Our Yesterdays" when Spock says his home planet is "millions of light years away." That's wrong, and we rationalize it by saying Spock was out of his gourd at the time and speaking in hyperbole.
Ha, I rationalize nothing. I just ignore that stuff and enjoy the stories. I wouldn't hire Star Trek writers to teach me astrology, nor would I ask astrologists to write for Star Trek. For a 60's TV show on hideous deadlines, I think they did well enough. But that's just me. Then again, I also give Irwin Allen a pass, so I'm a basically forgiving person.
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Old March 10 2014, 01:39 PM   #15
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Re: A Goof in the STAR TREK Franchise

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
Ha, I rationalize nothing. I just ignore that stuff and enjoy the stories. I wouldn't hire Star Trek writers to teach me astrology, nor would I ask astrologists to write for Star Trek. For a 60's TV show on hideous deadlines, I think they did well enough. But that's just me. Then again, I also give Irwin Allen a pass, so I'm a basically forgiving person.

I think you mean astronomy. I'm not getting a strong science vibe from the bridge of the Seaview.
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