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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old February 28 2014, 04:52 PM   #61
DonIago
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Perhaps the reason for the episode-end levity is that the ship had a cloning chamber installed. This would also explain some of the character recurrences.

"He's not really dead, as long as we remember him...and our cloning chamber works."

Obviously Spock couldn't be regenerated because Khan's attack damaged the chamber, hence the sadness at the end of TWoK.

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Old February 28 2014, 07:24 PM   #62
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Christopher wrote: View Post
It would be insensitive in-universe, but in real-world terms, the producers didn't want the viewers to go away depressed, so the conceit of a "happy ending" was used.
In Operation: Annihilate!, the brother of Kirk dies and the episodes ends with jokes about vulcan ears...

For a modern viewer, it can be unsettling... I can't imagine a episode of a modern tv show ending with a light note after a close relative of the main protagonist died...
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Old February 28 2014, 07:46 PM   #63
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

This shows TOS redshirt deaths. For those of you who are on tablets that don't show the vid, go to YouTube and type "I'm Alive Redshirts" and click on the 3:48 minute vid. The song is a bit appropo...
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Old February 28 2014, 08:05 PM   #64
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Yes, the episodes end with the crew joking, but they're not joking about the redshirt deaths ... the producers didn't want the viewers to go away depressed, so the conceit of a "happy ending" was used.
No, they're not, and like I said, it seems almost as bad — but there are worse things.

(Actually I thought I picked up that point from you. Have you posted in the past about the incongruity of humorous endings?)

Anyway, we still have, "Let's get the hell out of here." They could be serious when needed.
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Old February 28 2014, 09:11 PM   #65
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Silvercrest wrote: View Post
No, they're not, and like I said, it seems almost as bad — but there are worse things.

(Actually I thought I picked up that point from you. Have you posted in the past about the incongruity of humorous endings?)
I'm not saying it can't be criticized. I'm saying, criticize it for what it actually is. The claim I was challenging was that they were joking about the redshirt deaths, which is simply untrue.
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Old February 28 2014, 11:21 PM   #66
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Agreed!
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Old March 6 2014, 05:39 PM   #67
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

I always thought "A Taste of Armageddon" was an interesting anomaly in this regard, since 3 redshirts (Yeoman Tamura plus Security guards Galloway and Osborne) beam down with Kirk at the beginning of the episode and all 3 of them survive despite the landing party spending a good part of the episode engaged in a more-or-less running firefight with the Eminian guards. The only Federation death in the episode was Fox's aide.
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Old March 6 2014, 05:40 PM   #68
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Garrovick wrote: View Post
I always thought "A Taste of Armageddon" was an interesting anomaly in this regard, since 3 redshirts (Yeoman Tamura plus Security guards Galloway and Osborne) beam down with Kirk at the beginning of the episode and all 3 of them survive despite the landing party spending a good part of the episode engaged in a more-or-less running firefight with the Eminian guards. The only Federation death in the episode was Fox's aide.
Was Fox's aide killed or merely stunned? We don't know.
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Old March 6 2014, 06:30 PM   #69
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

^ Yep, we see the aide slumped over in a corner after a firefight, but we have no idea what eventually happened to him. He could have just been knocked unconscious.
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Old March 6 2014, 10:04 PM   #70
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

I should think the Eminians would have preferred to stun him, because otherwise his death wouldn't be properly registered with the disintegration chambers.
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Old March 7 2014, 03:26 PM   #71
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Well, I will grant that the episode doesn't really go into details about the aide's fate. Just like it doesn't go into details about the workings of the Eminians' sonic disruptor weapons (on a side note, I never did understand how weapons based on sonic vibrations can affect a starship in orbit, but I suppose that's another thread), but I've always felt the aide was killed in that fight (and there's no reason his lifeless body couldn't be taken to a disintegration station later, anyway).

But I do stand by my actual point, which was that the episode is an anomaly in my opinion as regards the usual fate of redshirts who beam down and encounter a hostile situation.
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Old March 7 2014, 03:54 PM   #72
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Garrovick wrote: View Post
But I do stand by my actual point, which was that the episode is an anomaly in my opinion as regards the usual fate of redshirts who beam down and encounter a hostile situation.
I'm not sure I'd agree, because the trope of redshirts constantly dying didn't really emerge until season 2, notably in episodes like "The Apple," "Obsession," and "The Changeling." The only "redshirt deaths" in the first season were in "What Are Little Girls Made Of" (Rayburn & Matthews), "Arena" (O'Herlihy, though goldshirted Lang also dies), and "The Devil in the Dark" (one nameless security officer). The majority of onscreen crew deaths in season one were in gold, and red was tied with blue. So "Armageddon" was not an anomaly where the first season was concerned.
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Old March 7 2014, 05:34 PM   #73
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

^^^ You have a good point in regards to Season 1; I was thinking more along the lines of TOS as a whole.
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Old March 10 2014, 02:47 AM   #74
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Redshirt Olsen's death - from the 2009 film - could have been prevented. He was just a bit too cocky and silly.

A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.
I don't believe, in universe, the deaths are seen as a source of amusement or celebrated.
But in fandom, and with people casually into Star Trek, it is.

(I wasn't too clear on that).

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.
I'd like one example when this was done.
One example:
Online forums.
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Old March 10 2014, 03:06 AM   #75
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Redshirt Olsen's death - from the 2009 film - could have been prevented. He was just a bit too cocky and silly.

A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.
I don't believe, in universe, the deaths are seen as a source of amusement or celebrated.
But in fandom, and with people casually into Star Trek, it is.

(I wasn't too clear on that).

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.
I'd like one example when this was done.
One example:
Online forums.
Still not in universe.

And I don't see a problem making light of the tropes of fiction.
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