RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,145
Posts: 5,434,151
Members: 24,936
Currently online: 530
Newest member: davidhan

TrekToday headlines

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 26 2014, 05:12 AM   #31
Tiberius
Commodore
 
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
It's cheaper to kill redshirts than it is to give them lines.
"Now, Captain Kirk, why did you order that man to investigate the giant monster?"

"He was about to speak, and we couldn't afford to pay him for that, as we only have five spacedollars in petty cash."
Tiberius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 05:53 AM   #32
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Overall the Security casualties seem to account for about 50% of the fatalities over the course of the series. Given the loss of entire crews (or nearly so) aboard other ships the loss rate aboard the Enterprise doesn't seem so alarming.

- Valiant (two centuries prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Horizon (a century prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Archon (a century prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Valiant (50 years prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Farragut (12 years earlier): half the crew lost
- Beagle (6 years prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Antares: entire crew and ship lost
- Constellation: entire crew and ship lost
- Exeter: entire crew lost (save for the Captain)
- Excalibur: entire crew lost due to M5 attack
- Lexington: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Hood: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Potemkin: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Intrepid: entire crew and ship lost
- Defiant: entire crew and ship lost
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 06:00 AM   #33
Cyke101
Rear Admiral
 
Cyke101's Avatar
 
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Overall the Security casualties seem to account for about 50% of the fatalities over the course of the series. Given the loss of entire crews (or nearly so) aboard other ships the loss rate aboard the Enterprise doesn't seem so alarming.

- Valiant (two centuries prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Horizon (a century prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Archon (a century prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Valiant (50 years prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Farragut (12 years earlier): half the crew lost
- Beagle (6 years prior): entire crew and ship lost
- Antares: entire crew and ship lost
- Constellation: entire crew and ship lost
- Exeter: entire crew lost (save for the Captain)
- Excalibur: entire crew lost due to M5 attack
- Lexington: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Hood: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Potemkin: unknown number of casualties due to M5 attack
- Intrepid: entire crew and ship lost
- Defiant: entire crew and ship lost
Yes, but it follows the same narrative logic that a Red shirt serves - other good guys die so that our heroes are either spared or can learn about the problem. TNG's first two seasons were also rife with this trope. Might as well paint their hulls red. But it's also kind of unfair to compare other one-off crews and ships to the primary crew of a TV show, since if the primary crew dies, so does the TV show. Really, there's no need to paint the Enterprise as unique since we already have two shows and 6 movies that deal with her exploits.

I showed my boyfriend BoBW and ST:FC, and when he put them together with STIX, he determined that the main purpose of Starfleet armadas was to blow them up (I haven't shown him the Dominion War, but I'm confident that he'll chalk that up as well).
__________________
“You do not use science in order to prove yourself right, you use science in order to become right.”
Cyke101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 06:27 AM   #34
Timewalker
Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady
 
Timewalker's Avatar
 
Location: In many different universes, simultaneously.
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
"By Any Other Name" has a shocking choice of (red-dressed) victims. Did you tally up how many female crew members Kirk lost overall?
Dr. Dehner
The yeoman in "By Any Other Name"
Galway in "The Deadly Years"

Both Dehner and Galway were science personnel.

Warped9 wrote: View Post
- Antares: entire crew and ship lost
Wouldn't the Thasians have restored them?
__________________
"Let's give it to Riker. He'll eat anything!"

For some great Original Series fanfic, check out the Valjiir Continuum!
Timewalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 06:31 AM   #35
Dr. Sevrin
Vice Admiral
 
Dr. Sevrin's Avatar
 
Location: Melakon's grave
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

My favorite redshirt death is still poor Grant in "Friday's Child".

"A Klingon!"
"Grant, no!"
*whoosh!* *thunk*
__________________
Dr. Sevrin is insane.
Dr. Sevrin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 08:05 AM   #36
ZapBrannigan
Fleet Captain
 
ZapBrannigan's Avatar
 
Location: New York State
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
"By Any Other Name" has a shocking choice of (red-dressed) victims. Did you tally up how many female crew members Kirk lost overall?
Dr. Dehner
The yeoman in "By Any Other Name"
Galway in "The Deadly Years"

Both Dehner and Galway were science personnel.

Thanks, that's a start. I also recall the psycho-tricorder girl in "Wolf in the Fold" dying. (And I don't believe that cock and bull story about a space demon. It had to be Scotty.)

Edit: I can't remember if Angela got strafed in "Shore Leave," or did she just run into the tree and get knocked out?
ZapBrannigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 02:07 PM   #37
Mr. Spook
Rear Admiral
 
Mr. Spook's Avatar
 
Location: ssosmcin
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
- Antares: entire crew and ship lost
Wouldn't the Thasians have restored them?
Sadly, no...

THASIAN: "We are saddened that his escape cost the lives of the first ship. We could not help them..."
__________________
"Tranya is people!"
Mr. Spook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 03:15 PM   #38
F. King Daniel
Admiral
 
F. King Daniel's Avatar
 
Location: King Daniel Into Darkness
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

"You see, none of them were main characters..."
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
F. King Daniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 04:01 PM   #39
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Edit: I can't remember if Angela got strafed in "Shore Leave," or did she just run into the tree and get knocked out?
Like McCoy, she was seemingly killed, but turned up intact at the end.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 05:50 PM   #40
BMariner
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Do we have any idea what the redshirt contingent was of a TOS-era Constitution Class starship? If redshirts accounted for more of the crew than any other group, it shouldn't be so alarming that the number of overall losses reflect that ratio.
BMariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 05:58 PM   #41
Joel_Kirk
Commodore
 
Joel_Kirk's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' on Ligon II...
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Redshirt Olsen's death - from the 2009 film - could have been prevented. He was just a bit too cocky and silly.

A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.

Last edited by Joel_Kirk; February 26 2014 at 06:26 PM.
Joel_Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 06:31 PM   #42
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

BMariner wrote: View Post
Do we have any idea what the redshirt contingent was of a TOS-era Constitution Class starship? If redshirts accounted for more of the crew than any other group, it shouldn't be so alarming that the number of overall losses reflect that ratio.
When we talk about "redshirts," we really mean security guards. Red was the color for engineering and operations as well as security, but the vast majority of the "redshirt" fatalities were security personnel. It stands to reason that security guards would be the first in harm's way and thus have the highest casualty rates. Their job is to risk -- and, if necessary, sacrifice -- their lives to protect the rest of the crew.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26 2014, 06:42 PM   #43
BMariner
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Christopher wrote: View Post
When we talk about "redshirts," we really mean security guards. Red was the color for engineering and operations as well as security, but the vast majority of the "redshirt" fatalities were security personnel. It stands to reason that security guards would be the first in harm's way and thus have the highest casualty rates. Their job is to risk -- and, if necessary, sacrifice -- their lives to protect the rest of the crew.
Right, so not only were redshirts more likely to be in potentially fatal situations (in no small part because the red contingent included security), it's also probable that there were more redshirts on board the ship overall. Yes, we saw a lot of redshirts die, and redshirt deaths were a common plot device, but looking objectively at the death rate of people wearing red shirts in TOS, it may be that the Redshirt Death Count (RDC) isn't all that alarming, given the context.
BMariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2014, 01:31 AM   #44
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
Redshirt Olsen's death - from the 2009 film - could have been prevented. He was just a bit too cocky and silly.

A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.
I don't believe, in universe, the deaths are seen as a source of amusement or celebrated.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27 2014, 01:39 AM   #45
Creepy Critter
Admiral
 
Creepy Critter's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
A personal observation: I always find it interesting that the death of individuals in redshirts are celebrated and is a source of amusement, in a universe where life is supposedly precious, as well as equality, enlightenment, etc.
I'd like one example when this was done.
__________________
CorporalCaptain
Creepy Critter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:30 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.