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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old February 25 2014, 03:51 PM   #16
Armored Saint
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I just did a quick tally (and anyone feel free to correct me) and this is what I came up with:

(Red) Security personnel: 19
(Red) Support Services: 8
(Blue) Sciences: 3
(Gold) Command: 7

Total: 37

That's the total for the series with the bulk of those happening in the second season. Of those 37 casualties 27 of them are redshirts and 8 of those are Engineering or Support Services. Overall casualties averaged over 3 years = 12.3 deaths per year.
The Redshirt effect is not about the TOS universe, but about what is shown on screen. So, 37 hands lost in all series, it's almotst one casualty each two episodes. 27 dead redshirts, it's one victim each three episodes.
Of course, it's not how it happened, it doesn't follow any specific frequency, but at the end, it's still a lot of redshirt killed on screen and they're indeed the classic casualties.
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Old February 25 2014, 05:08 PM   #17
Shawnster
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

You may wish to consider this article from ex Astris Scientia: Redshirt Deaths in TOS
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Old February 25 2014, 05:13 PM   #18
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

http://www.sitelogicmarketing.com/bl...o-captain-kirk

According to it, the total number of crew fatalities in TOS was 59, and 73% of those were redshirts. In the first season, there was a pretty even mix of fatalities in different departments, but in seasons 2 & 3, the fatalities were overwhelmingly security guards. So there is some validity to the "myth" after all.

EDIT: Although comparing it to that Ex Astris Scientia article (we cross-posted), it looks like they counted all the "unknowns" as redshirts, so clearly that skews the results. So I'd say the EAS breakdown is more reliable.
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Old February 25 2014, 05:31 PM   #19
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

If we were to look at this from a TNG standpoint we could probably skew the results sharply simply by including or excluding the (admittedly non-canon) Tezwa mission.
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Old February 25 2014, 05:34 PM   #20
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
I just did a quick tally (and anyone feel free to correct me) and this is what I came up with:

(Red) Security personnel: 19
(Red) Support Services: 8
(Blue) Sciences: 3
(Gold) Command: 7

Total: 37

That's the total for the series with the bulk of those happening in the second season. Of those 37 casualties 27 of them are redshirts and 8 of those are Engineering or Support Services. Overall casualties averaged over 3 years = 12.3 deaths per year.



Also, along with "Obsession" and "The Changeling", I would add "The Apple" as a major redshirt killer.


I'd say this is the reason the feeling that redshirts are doomed really persists. It's not just that they're the ones who die. It's that, in some episodes, they're the only ones who die (The Apple just takes this to a ridiculous straining of probability), and this strains credulity.
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Old February 25 2014, 05:52 PM   #21
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Yeah, "The Apple" is particularly egregious, because for the only time in the history of the series, they beam down a landing party so large that it takes two trips to send them all through, and that just makes it so obvious that the only reason those four guards were sent down was so that they could be killed off one by one.
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Old February 25 2014, 07:04 PM   #22
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

"The Apple" and "Obsession" are particularly hard on Security personnel. What is it, at least 7 or more in total over the two episodes?

Nomad kills two(?) in "The Changeling." Two die by accident in "And The Children Shall Lead." The rest are killed individually here and there. We have no idea if any Security personnel were among the 9 casualties mentioned by Spock in WNMHGB. We also don't know if any Security personnel died from their injuries after the alien with its influence departs in "Day Of The Dove."
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Old February 25 2014, 08:01 PM   #23
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

I would think a security position would be the most dangerous, so it only stands to reason that TOS redshirts would have the largest body count.
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Old February 25 2014, 11:29 PM   #24
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
"The Apple" and "Obsession" are particularly hard on Security personnel. What is it, at least 7 or more in total over the two episodes?

Nomad kills two(?) in "The Changeling." Two die by accident in "And The Children Shall Lead." The rest are killed individually here and there. We have no idea if any Security personnel were among the 9 casualties mentioned by Spock in WNMHGB. We also don't know if any Security personnel died from their injuries after the alien with its influence departs in "Day Of The Dove."
4

And it was pretty absurd to assign ANY guards to Nomad period--and then two more? What were hand phasers going to do against it?
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Old February 26 2014, 01:08 AM   #25
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Vandervecken wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
"The Apple" and "Obsession" are particularly hard on Security personnel. What is it, at least 7 or more in total over the two episodes?

Nomad kills two(?) in "The Changeling." Two die by accident in "And The Children Shall Lead." The rest are killed individually here and there. We have no idea if any Security personnel were among the 9 casualties mentioned by Spock in WNMHGB. We also don't know if any Security personnel died from their injuries after the alien with its influence departs in "Day Of The Dove."
4

And it was pretty absurd to assign ANY guards to Nomad period--and then two more? What were hand phasers going to do against it?
The problem in "The Changeling" (one of several major problems in the script, the blue-y scene being at the top of the heap), is that the guards should have known better not to fire at Nomad, given what had happened at the beginning of the episode. Were they idiots? They should have simply monitored Nomad's movements and reported. Disintegrating the guards, as an unnecessary reply (doubtlessly Nomad was invulnerable to hand phasers) to an essentially implausible provocation, was just gratuitous TV violence.
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Old February 26 2014, 01:21 AM   #26
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

At least in TOS people didn't disintegrate like they did in TSFS when Kruge vaporized his own gunner. THAT was disturbing.
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Old February 26 2014, 01:24 AM   #27
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

It's cheaper to kill redshirts than it is to give them lines.
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Old February 26 2014, 01:31 AM   #28
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Anyone know if more redshirts died in each series when compared to other starfleet deaths?
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Old February 26 2014, 02:07 AM   #29
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

bbjeg wrote: View Post
Anyone know if more redshirts died in each series when compared to other starfleet deaths?
I think its roughly about fifty percent.
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Old February 26 2014, 03:34 AM   #30
Push The Button
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Re: The Redshirt Myth?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
"The Apple" and "Obsession" are particularly hard on Security personnel. What is it, at least 7 or more in total over the two episodes?

Nomad kills two(?) in "The Changeling." Two die by accident in "And The Children Shall Lead." The rest are killed individually here and there. We have no idea if any Security personnel were among the 9 casualties mentioned by Spock in WNMHGB. We also don't know if any Security personnel died from their injuries after the alien with its influence departs in "Day Of The Dove."
Nomad kills (redshirt) Scotty also, but brings him back to life a few minutes later, so I guess we just call that one a push.
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