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Old February 21 2014, 11:24 PM   #46
Robert Comsol
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

<<

The helmsman was taking a break in the head (or the director told the extra who had steadfastily steered the ship through the battle to get lost, because he was screwing up the farewell family shot...)

Ronald Held wrote: View Post
Could the computer correlate enough data to know Scott wanted Kirk's Enterprise?
Scotty's first request ("Show me my old ship") established that the computer couldn't read minds but needed specifications.

I think all the holodeck in "Relics" had access to was the three-dimensional reproduction of a Constitution Class starship (maybe even just the one from the museum) and simply delivered the best approximation that was stored. But it worked for Scotty, apparently (gotta be grateful for little things).

Bob
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Old February 22 2014, 04:02 AM   #47
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

Shat Happens wrote: View Post
We know it's fate perfectly well. It sailed directly into a star because the helm station was unmanned at the time.


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Old February 22 2014, 09:15 PM   #48
Ronald Held
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
<<

The helmsman was taking a break in the head (or the director told the extra who had steadfastily steered the ship through the battle to get lost, because he was screwing up the farewell family shot...)

Ronald Held wrote: View Post
Could the computer correlate enough data to know Scott wanted Kirk's Enterprise?
Scotty's first request ("Show me my old ship") established that the computer couldn't read minds but needed specifications.

I think all the holodeck in "Relics" had access to was the three-dimensional reproduction of a Constitution Class starship (maybe even just the one from the museum) and simply delivered the best approximation that was stored. But it worked for Scotty, apparently (gotta be grateful for little things).

Bob
Scott being drunk may have allowed him to overlook minor discrepancies?
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Old February 23 2014, 10:26 PM   #49
Robert Comsol
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

I don't know if the discrepancies were that minor. The floor carpet had the wrong color (Bob Justman visited during shooting and mentioned that), the step from the upper bridge platform to the lower one isn't right, the alert indicator in the turbo lift alcove is re-positioned etc.

But then again, prior to his departure with the Jenolan Scotty hadn't been on the TOS bridge for how long? Over two decades?

I couldn't remember the correct details of my workplace from over two decades ago and being drunk wouldn't really help me remembering.

Bob
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Old February 23 2014, 10:41 PM   #50
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

Was it the Enterprise-B that was destroyed in Generations?
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Old February 23 2014, 11:22 PM   #51
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
SCOTT (OC): U.S.S. Enterprise, shakedown cruise report. I think this new ship was put together by monkeys.
Maybe I should have rewritten my post the moment I came across this dialogue quote from ST V.

So here we have Montgomery Scott (shouldn't he know best?) clearly stating "this new ship".

I really can't see how this could be possibly ambiguous.

Bob
Check a foreign language version of the movie. Certain foreign languages have two translations for 'new'; either 'new' in the sense of 'newly manufactured' or in the sense of 'newly belonging to me', e.g. French's neuf/nouveau.
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Old February 24 2014, 04:09 AM   #52
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

Could the "A" be like the shuttle Endeavour? A new ship built out of spare-parts/left overs from previous refits/builds. It's certainly explain STV a little better, and explain why she had a short life.
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Old February 24 2014, 07:26 AM   #53
Lance
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

AverageWriter wrote: View Post
B.J. wrote: View Post
AverageWriter wrote: View Post
It would just mean we would all have to accept that for some unknown period of time every single person at that particular shipyard just spontaneously forgot how to build a working starship...

Hmm...

You know, I'm liking your "old ship quickly pushed back into service" idea more now...
They wouldn't have to forget how to build a starship, they'd just have to forget how to build that particular class. The Boeing plant in St. Louis is still cranking out F-15s and F/A-18s, but I wouldn't count on anyone there still knowing how to build an F-4, at least not without a lot of defects.
Given the incredible amount of standardization and automation present in design install, do you really believe that so much difference existed (shell design notwithstanding) between classes? The Enterprise A wasn't built as an experimental design- StarFleet had been (and continued to build) the C-Class Heavy Cruiser for a long, long time along with its internal components.
The only rational explanation for the way the A behaved out of spacedock was that SOMEONE... or perhaps a lot of someones... were drunk at the assembly station.
My take has always been that there were unexpected incompatabilities between the new modules and the old ones. Think about it. The Enterprise we (briefly) see launching at the end of Star Trek IV looks substantiviely different internally than it does in Star Trek V and VI (the latter case looks different to V as well, but only cosmetically so IMO). Now, evidently the bridge module at the very least has been replaced, perhaps because Starfleet think if they're gonna have a new Connie out there, then it had better be updated to a level comparable to the Excelsior class ships they intend to populate the fleet with. So, the bridge module (and probably various other plug-in components throughout the ship) is one of the new designs intended for this fleet of upcoming Excelsiors, but it's been crudely installed into the Constitution architecture which slightly rejects it, and that's why we get these rampant malfunctions all the way throughout Star Trek V.

Basically, a bit more time would have sorted everything out, but Admiral Bennett insisted that the 1701-A had to go on the Nimbus mission for God knows what reason (Get it? "God" knows? Hey? Star Trek V? Okay, okay, don't explain the joke Lance ), so they had to launch her, whether the ship was actually in working order or not. Even Kirk felt the need to point out how ridiculous that was, but you know, orders are orders.
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Old February 24 2014, 08:52 AM   #54
QuinnTV
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Could the "A" be like the shuttle Endeavour? A new ship built out of spare-parts/left overs from previous refits/builds. It's certainly explain STV a little better, and explain why she had a short life.
I had been thinking along the same lines, but you stated it with a better example than I could come up with.
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Old February 24 2014, 09:05 AM   #55
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
SCOTT (OC): U.S.S. Enterprise, shakedown cruise report. I think this new ship was put together by monkeys.
Maybe I should have rewritten my post the moment I came across this dialogue quote from ST V.

So here we have Montgomery Scott (shouldn't he know best?) clearly stating "this new ship".

I really can't see how this could be possibly ambiguous.

Bob
I took that as meaning new to Scotty, not necessarily new in the sense of 'recently built.' If I got a car that is a 2009 Camry, it's new to me, even though it's not a new car, and I would rightly refer to it as 'my new car,' even though it's not "new" (recently built), but it is "new" (recently acquired).
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Old February 24 2014, 03:38 PM   #56
F. King Daniel
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

They did go out of their way to show the new Enterprise as being more advanced than it's predecessor. The bridge echoes the Excelsior NX-2000, the interfaces are all now touchscreens etc.
(which of course totally changes for VI, where buttons return, the lights are left off and the ship looks old and worn out... because Meyer)

Again going back to MSGttE, it said the Ent-A (formerly USS Ti-ho) was built from the ground up, putting the new technology developed for Excelsior into an Enterprise-class frame. Aside from the corridors and transporter (which were built for TMP and modified slightly for TNG), the ship definitely looks different inside.
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Old February 24 2014, 07:20 PM   #57
Ronald Held
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I don't know if the discrepancies were that minor. The floor carpet had the wrong color (Bob Justman visited during shooting and mentioned that), the step from the upper bridge platform to the lower one isn't right, the alert indicator in the turbo lift alcove is re-positioned etc.

But then again, prior to his departure with the Jenolan Scotty hadn't been on the TOS bridge for how long? Over two decades?

I couldn't remember the correct details of my workplace from over two decades ago and being drunk wouldn't really help me remembering.

Bob
I have not seen that episode in decades, so I do not recall those discrepancies. Maybe the time since he served on the TOS Enterprise plus alcohol was enough to look correct. Or maybe it was correct enough to satisfy him emotionally?
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Old February 24 2014, 08:48 PM   #58
QuinnTV
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
They did go out of their way to show the new Enterprise as being more advanced than it's predecessor. The bridge echoes the Excelsior NX-2000, the interfaces are all now touchscreens etc.
(which of course totally changes for VI, where buttons return, the lights are left off and the ship looks old and worn out... because Meyer)

Again going back to MSGttE, it said the Ent-A (formerly USS Ti-ho) was built from the ground up, putting the new technology developed for Excelsior into an Enterprise-class frame. Aside from the corridors and transporter (which were built for TMP and modified slightly for TNG), the ship definitely looks different inside.
This idea could go along with what SeerSBG was theorizing. You may recall that the TNG Tech Manual made mention of the additional six spaceframes for the Galaxy class. Perhaps, in this earlier time frame, there were enough spare parts to assemble the majority of one ship. These spares alone weren't enough for a single operational ship, yet they weren't going to be called for, as the build program for that class had come to an end. Rather than just scrap their stuff, Starfleet could have used the latest Connie-type technology and a bit of the newer Excelsior shiny stuff - both to field test it on more than just the Excelsior program and to see if any of it would be suitable to retrofit onto the older classes. The A might have been an interesting mix of the outgoing and the incoming.

Suddenly, the Probe appears, etc, etc. The "Plus One" (I hated that Ti-Ho name) experimental pseudo-Connie gets rebadged as the 1701-A.

(Maybe the bridge from TVH just wasn't a good control center for the ship, and they swapped it out.)
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Old February 24 2014, 10:18 PM   #59
C.E. Evans
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
They did go out of their way to show the new Enterprise as being more advanced than it's predecessor. The bridge echoes the Excelsior NX-2000, the interfaces are all now touchscreens etc.
Not all of them. When she was originally launched as NX-2000, the Excelsior had a mix of both touchscreens, buttons, and possibly even levers on her bridge.
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Old February 25 2014, 03:32 PM   #60
Lance
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Re: Life of the Enterprise-A

Yeah, the new Enterprise bridge kind of prefigures the NCC-2000 bridge module of Excelsior, but certainly not the NX-2000 module, which looked radically different.

I like to think the bridge module that we see on the ENT-A in TFF and TUC was a prefab designed for the proposed upcoming fleet of Excelsior class Starships, but it was simply fitted to the NCC-1701-A to replace the old bridge module that it had already been using prior to being rechristened Enterprise. (alongside many other 'system updates'). Hence, the series of crippling incompatibilities that Mister Scott is running around trying to fix throughout TFF. The outdated Connie software is having trouble adapting to the modern Excelsior hardware, and Scotty keeps getting the Blue Screen Of Death every time he tries to beam someone down and then up again.
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