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Old February 14 2014, 04:13 AM   #106
exodus
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Whilst Earth might be a couple of weeks away, that doesn't mean there isn't somewhere closer. And you are missing the point we are told flat out that they have NO WAY to replace the torpedeos and how many they have. They use more than that. So where did these torpedeos come from, oh yes A wizard did it. And don't say the replicators surely Janeway would know what the replicators can and can not do. So logically the replicators onboard can not replicate the parts to construct torpedeos. Taking that logic further if they can't replicate the parts to construct a torpdeo then replicating something more complex like parts for a shuttlecraft would be beyond the limits as well. So it would appear that factories are needed to construct torpedeos, so perhaps they couldn't due to not having enough space for all the processes required
Sorry but logic is not pulling ideas out ones ass and pretending it's fact based upon nothing actually proven.
Considering they've shown Tuvok & Harry constructing a torpedo warhead & the Engineering crew building the Delta Flyer, I'm going to take the "belief" it can't be done with a grain of salt.
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Old February 14 2014, 04:25 AM   #107
Guy Gardener
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

The Jem ha'dar did a whole Bit about who was superior the Alpha Quadrant born or the Gamma Quadrant born.

I was wondering how much it would have slowed Voyager down if she was towing a Sovereign Class Starship under construction?

They had the plans.
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Old February 14 2014, 09:24 AM   #108
MacLeod
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

exodus wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
Whilst Earth might be a couple of weeks away, that doesn't mean there isn't somewhere closer. And you are missing the point we are told flat out that they have NO WAY to replace the torpedeos and how many they have. They use more than that. So where did these torpedeos come from, oh yes A wizard did it. And don't say the replicators surely Janeway would know what the replicators can and can not do. So logically the replicators onboard can not replicate the parts to construct torpedeos. Taking that logic further if they can't replicate the parts to construct a torpdeo then replicating something more complex like parts for a shuttlecraft would be beyond the limits as well. So it would appear that factories are needed to construct torpedeos, so perhaps they couldn't due to not having enough space for all the processes required
Sorry but logic is not pulling ideas out ones ass and pretending it's fact based upon nothing actually proven.
Considering they've shown Tuvok & Harry constructing a torpedo warhead & the Engineering crew building the Delta Flyer, I'm going to take the "belief" it can't be done with a grain of salt.
But I'm not pulling it out of my arse, NO WAY means NO WAY as impossible, can't be done. And if you want to take Janeway's belief it can't be done, thats fine, if you want to rationalise it that way. I would say the simple fact is that they just decided to ignore it. Having a limitation can drive drama, I like others think they missed an opportunity by things like this becomming an issue at some point along the journey.
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Old February 14 2014, 09:32 AM   #109
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

The timeline split at the 58 day mark when Fury collided with season one.

Janeway became aware that they were going to be out there for at least another 6 years, so she stopped waiting for help to come to her, and she wasted a weekend building a stupid torpedo factory.
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Old February 14 2014, 03:58 PM   #110
Anwar
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

MacLeod wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
Whilst Earth might be a couple of weeks away, that doesn't mean there isn't somewhere closer. And you are missing the point we are told flat out that they have NO WAY to replace the torpedeos and how many they have. They use more than that. So where did these torpedeos come from, oh yes A wizard did it. And don't say the replicators surely Janeway would know what the replicators can and can not do. So logically the replicators onboard can not replicate the parts to construct torpedeos. Taking that logic further if they can't replicate the parts to construct a torpdeo then replicating something more complex like parts for a shuttlecraft would be beyond the limits as well. So it would appear that factories are needed to construct torpedeos, so perhaps they couldn't due to not having enough space for all the processes required
Sorry but logic is not pulling ideas out ones ass and pretending it's fact based upon nothing actually proven.
Considering they've shown Tuvok & Harry constructing a torpedo warhead & the Engineering crew building the Delta Flyer, I'm going to take the "belief" it can't be done with a grain of salt.
But I'm not pulling it out of my arse, NO WAY means NO WAY as impossible, can't be done. And if you want to take Janeway's belief it can't be done, thats fine, if you want to rationalise it that way. I would say the simple fact is that they just decided to ignore it. Having a limitation can drive drama, I like others think they missed an opportunity by things like this becomming an issue at some point along the journey.
Not when the limitation made no sense to begin with, which Exodus has just demonstrated.
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Old February 14 2014, 07:59 PM   #111
MacLeod
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

We'll have to disagree, I would say all that has been proven is that the creative team didn't care. And in a show filled with inane technobabble (not that the other ST shows weren't quilty of this) you are saying they couldn't have spared two or three lines of dialouge to explain away the limitation. The ST universe has it's own rules, so if they want to establish a limitation that a ship can't replace torpedeos then that's the rule, you want to change the rulke by all means but at least explain why. They did it with the Warp 10 barrier, a new form of dilithium crystal . How it's different doesn't matter really, but at least it acknowledges the rule they had established and how they cna get around it.

In my view the problem is that they had a premise which leant towards a more serialised format but wrote it as an episodic show. For the people that love it as it is great that you love it, but in my opinion it had a great premise but the execution was lacking. Sure it had it's moments of brilliance and Robert Picardo quite often stole the show but to me it felt like a re-hash of TNG rather than trying to be different.
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Old February 15 2014, 04:15 AM   #112
exodus
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

MacLeod wrote: View Post
We'll have to disagree, I would say all that has been proven is that the creative team didn't care. And in a show filled with inane technobabble (not that the other ST shows weren't quilty of this) you are saying they couldn't have spared two or three lines of dialouge to explain away the limitation. The ST universe has it's own rules, so if they want to establish a limitation that a ship can't replace torpedeos then that's the rule, you want to change the rulke by all means but at least explain why. They did it with the Warp 10 barrier, a new form of dilithium crystal . How it's different doesn't matter really, but at least it acknowledges the rule they had established and how they cna get around it.

In my view the problem is that they had a premise which leant towards a more serialised format but wrote it as an episodic show. For the people that love it as it is great that you love it, but in my opinion it had a great premise but the execution was lacking. Sure it had it's moments of brilliance and Robert Picardo quite often stole the show but to me it felt like a re-hash of TNG rather than trying to be different.
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Old February 15 2014, 06:46 AM   #113
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

From what I saw, every day Hitler wished for a smaller pineapple.
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Old February 15 2014, 07:10 AM   #114
Anwar
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

MacLeod wrote: View Post
In my view the problem is that they had a premise which leant towards a more serialised format but wrote it as an episodic show. For the people that love it as it is great that you love it, but in my opinion it had a great premise but the execution was lacking. Sure it had it's moments of brilliance and Robert Picardo quite often stole the show but to me it felt like a re-hash of TNG rather than trying to be different.
The other major problem was that the show didn't really have a sustainable plot. "Lost Ship" is only sustainable for 2 seasons at most. Not having anything beyond that meant they didn't have much to work with.

No, you can't get 7 seasons out of the "We're low on supplies" thing.
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Old February 15 2014, 07:19 AM   #115
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

They didn't get one season out of we're low on supplies.

Probably 10 episodes ever were about resource scarcity.
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Old February 15 2014, 08:32 PM   #116
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

TheSeeker wrote: View Post
What other examples of poor continuity did we see?
I'm currently trying to get through Voyager and it's a struggle. I never did see all 7 seasons during it's original run, maybe the first 3 and then sporadic episodes after that.

It's so obvious that this series suffered from writers burnout or just plain laziness. Over and over and over again "Warp drive is offline" or "Phasers are offline" or anytime something was needed it was "offline." The flipside of the coin, anytime something was running (like the holodecks) and needed to be shut down, they couldn't, the "controls were fused" or some other nonsense. This has to be the worst series for technobabble.

It seems every other episode a shuttle crashes. I'm really surprised this lasted for 7 seasons. I'm currently halfway through season 5 and after the pounding that Voyager has taken so far, it still looks like it just left Spacedock.

It was nice to see Jeri Ryan actually do some acting (Infinite Regress) in which different personalities surfaced and while I do admire her looks, all her outfits seemed to be designed to show off her (fake) tits. A borg wearing heels, did I really see that?

I think it was funny to see Torres wearing one of those pregnancy hiding smocks in several episodes, complete with nerdy looking tools in the upper pocket. Then, after the actress had her child, no more smock. I think they did the same thing with Crusher in TNG. Pregnant? Here, wear this smock, nobody will know!

Even though I haven't re-watched the series finale, I remember being disappointed when I saw it the first time. They make it back home and then the credits roll. I think they should have had another few episodes that showed what happened to everyone after they made it back home.

Trek should have ended it's TV run after this series but even with all of its faults, I thought Enterprise was a little better.
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Old February 16 2014, 03:23 AM   #117
exodus
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

Anwar wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
In my view the problem is that they had a premise which leant towards a more serialised format but wrote it as an episodic show. For the people that love it as it is great that you love it, but in my opinion it had a great premise but the execution was lacking. Sure it had it's moments of brilliance and Robert Picardo quite often stole the show but to me it felt like a re-hash of TNG rather than trying to be different.
The other major problem was that the show didn't really have a sustainable plot. "Lost Ship" is only sustainable for 2 seasons at most. Not having anything beyond that meant they didn't have much to work with.

No, you can't get 7 seasons out of the "We're low on supplies" thing.
Yes, exactly because then the complains would go from "Why is the ship always perfect?" to "Why haven't they learned in 7 years how to keep the ship together?"

If Voyager's tech was more advanced than everyone else in the DQ, wouldn't flying around in a busted up ship be a contradiction? If it's tech is so advanced, why couldn't they hold the ship together?

On a ship full of military trained Engineers and replicators, why couldn't they build more torpedos? How is it possible that a Chief Security Officer nearly 100 yrs old, who spent a major part of his career teaching cadets combat, tactical and weaponry.....and he nor any of the other graduates have no knowledge of how to build torpedos? Why would such a thing NOT be a required course? Why would Tuvok, B'Elanna & Harry not have taken a course on how to do this, knowing they'd have to understand how one works when out in the field? We saw B'Elanna taking pieces of one apart to reprogram it AGAIN in "Dreadnaut". She explained she understood it's detonation device. Too know ALL that, you'd have to know how to build one!

How many times did we hear Janeway state that replicators can make weapons? That's why she didn't want to give one to the Kazon. Why wouldn't military Engineers & Tactical Officers not be able to replicate parts and put together the very technology they use? These are the very people building it and creating it to begin with.

The line about not being able to build more torpedos was dismissed for these reasons. It doesn't make sense if you have such wonderful tech as a replicator and well trained Engineers that you CAN'T build the shit you need for a Starship, even one lost. The only reason they wouldn't be able to create or build anything is if they lost power to the replicators. As long as those work, they're kinda worry free.
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Old February 16 2014, 03:37 AM   #118
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

There's a chance that Tuvok spent ninety percent of his time at the Academy teaching Archery Science, which would make him a Gym Teacher.
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Old February 16 2014, 03:52 AM   #119
exodus
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
There's a chance that Tuvok spent ninety percent of his time at the Academy teaching Archery Science, which would make him a Gym Teacher.


A gym teach as Security Chief??

.....That might explain why he could never keep people from boarding the ship and why all he ever did was make the Maquis run in "Learning Curve".
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Old February 16 2014, 11:20 AM   #120
MacLeod
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Re: Endless ammo and other inconsistencies

exodus wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
In my view the problem is that they had a premise which leant towards a more serialised format but wrote it as an episodic show. For the people that love it as it is great that you love it, but in my opinion it had a great premise but the execution was lacking. Sure it had it's moments of brilliance and Robert Picardo quite often stole the show but to me it felt like a re-hash of TNG rather than trying to be different.
The other major problem was that the show didn't really have a sustainable plot. "Lost Ship" is only sustainable for 2 seasons at most. Not having anything beyond that meant they didn't have much to work with.

No, you can't get 7 seasons out of the "We're low on supplies" thing.
Yes, exactly because then the complains would go from "Why is the ship always perfect?" to "Why haven't they learned in 7 years how to keep the ship together?"

If Voyager's tech was more advanced than everyone else in the DQ, wouldn't flying around in a busted up ship be a contradiction? If it's tech is so advanced, why couldn't they hold the ship together?

On a ship full of military trained Engineers and replicators, why couldn't they build more torpedos? How is it possible that a Chief Security Officer nearly 100 yrs old, who spent a major part of his career teaching cadets combat, tactical and weaponry.....and he nor any of the other graduates have no knowledge of how to build torpedos? Why would such a thing NOT be a required course? Why would Tuvok, B'Elanna & Harry not have taken a course on how to do this, knowing they'd have to understand how one works when out in the field? We saw B'Elanna taking pieces of one apart to reprogram it AGAIN in "Dreadnaut". She explained she understood it's detonation device. Too know ALL that, you'd have to know how to build one!

How many times did we hear Janeway state that replicators can make weapons? That's why she didn't want to give one to the Kazon. Why wouldn't military Engineers & Tactical Officers not be able to replicate parts and put together the very technology they use? These are the very people building it and creating it to begin with.

The line about not being able to build more torpedos was dismissed for these reasons. It doesn't make sense if you have such wonderful tech as a replicator and well trained Engineers that you CAN'T build the shit you need for a Starship, even one lost. The only reason they wouldn't be able to create or build anything is if they lost power to the replicators. As long as those work, they're kinda worry free.
Conversely if the tech is so advanced it might make it harder to use alien facilites to conduct repairs to things like the hull.

If replicators could make torpedeos or the parts for them, then they would have a way to replace them, as Janeway stated that they have NO WAY to replace them, then we can infer that they can't. Technology has limits, otherwise were is the drama? Why do we still see them constructing ships, why not just replicate them?
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