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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old February 12 2014, 07:24 PM   #61
WillsBabe
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

JD5000 wrote: View Post
I like Riker as a character, there's no difference of opinion there at all. Like Kirk/Shatner, who I also like, it's just really easy to find some humor in Frakes' performances.
I agree that it's easy to find humour in his performance. But his character comes in for a lot of criticism, too.
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Old February 12 2014, 11:49 PM   #62
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
For me, Frakes is injecting as much charm and humour into the character as he can. Riker is supposed to be a bit brash, young, perhaps egotistical, sly, with a good heart and a wry smile.
His smile isn't wry. It's smarmy.
Lance wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
For me, Frakes is injecting as much charm and humour into the character as he can. Riker is supposed to be a bit brash, young, perhaps egotistical, sly, with a good heart and a wry smile.
His smile isn't wry. It's smarmy.

And it isn't a smile, it's more a kind of... smirk.
....Guys.....

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
I think, perhaps, some of you are somewhat over-analyzing this.
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Old February 13 2014, 12:03 AM   #63
Timewalker
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

WillsBabe wrote: View Post
JD5000 wrote: View Post
I like Riker as a character, there's no difference of opinion there at all. Like Kirk/Shatner, who I also like, it's just really easy to find some humor in Frakes' performances.
I agree that it's easy to find humour in his performance. But his character comes in for a lot of criticism, too.
I will say this: every time I've tried to write serious fanfic with Riker as a character, it always turns into a satire. Riker does not do well in my ST satires (neither does Kirk, for that matter). I still have fond memories of the TNG soap opera parody a friend and I wrote for our ST clubzine... poor Bill Biker and Hellana of Troi didn't fare too well.

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
For me, Frakes is injecting as much charm and humour into the character as he can. Riker is supposed to be a bit brash, young, perhaps egotistical, sly, with a good heart and a wry smile.
His smile isn't wry. It's smarmy.
Lance wrote: View Post


And it isn't a smile, it's more a kind of... smirk.
....Guys.....

TheGoodStuff wrote: View Post
I think, perhaps, some of you are somewhat over-analyzing this.
If someone else wants to call his smile a smirk, I won't argue. He does smirk sometimes.
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Old February 13 2014, 12:06 AM   #64
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

DWF wrote: View Post
I think Frakes tried to add energy, character and humor to his scenes. For all the talk of how supposedly bland TNG was the actors did try to add character and energy tho their scene with little characters traits and oddities.
In my experience, whenever someone says TNG is bland, it's usually in regards to the writing (e.g. the lack of conflict between senior staff) rather than the acting.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
If someone else wants to call his smile a smirk, I won't argue. He does smirk sometimes.
And sometimes he goes for the full out grin. But if anyone would like to sit down and chat by the fireside about what the smirks and the grins mean over some tea, I'll be more than happy to join in
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Old February 13 2014, 03:36 PM   #65
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

Interesting thread.

As a kid, I always thought the way Riker seemed to not only echo Kirk in his pursuit of women, but also go further to the point where Frakes appeared to be actually channeling something akin to James Bond into the role of Riker, was all rather silly, if also funny. Every time Riker ended up alone with a woman, it was all rolled eyes and "Here we go again..."

For just two of the most gratuitous examples, there was that time when Riker seduced that very willing Irish girl - he was really channeling James Bond there, and it was utterly laughable... "You generally start at the top...and work your way down" "I think I can handle that!" *groan* Lol but seriously, it's like Frakes decided that he would channel Roger Moore's Bond that day.

And there was the time in the episode "First Contact" when an alien woman wanted to have it off with him simply because...well, we don't know why, but yeah. She claimed it was because he was an alien, which is accurate as she's from a different species, but the idea that he actually slept with her just so he could escape from the hospital (and the fact that she was virtually begging him for it) is both absurd and hilarious. He even got the parting words: "I'll call you the next time I'm passing through your star system"! Yep, inter-spatial stud, that's for sure.

What's more, for all of Kirk's reputation as a womaniser, I think Riker was actually far more extreme in this regard. I'm pretty sure I'm correct in thinking that Riker either scored with or made out with a chick in at least one episode of every single season of TNG. Am I right? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he did.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
WillsBabe wrote: View Post
JD5000 wrote: View Post
I like Riker as a character, there's no difference of opinion there at all. Like Kirk/Shatner, who I also like, it's just really easy to find some humor in Frakes' performances.
I agree that it's easy to find humour in his performance. But his character comes in for a lot of criticism, too.
I will say this: every time I've tried to write serious fanfic with Riker as a character, it always turns into a satire. Riker does not do well in my ST satires (neither does Kirk, for that matter). I still have fond memories of the TNG soap opera parody a friend and I wrote for our ST clubzine... poor Bill Biker and Hellana of Troi didn't fare too well.
That's interesting, I never thought of this kind of thing too much before but when I think about it now, it makes a lot of sense - Riker is the kind of character who's easy to parody and do satires with.

On that note, if you don't mind me asking, did you actually write a soap opera parody of TNG based on the Iliad? Or did you simply use those kinds of names? If it was based on the Iliad, could you please send me a link to it? I'd really like to read it - I love crossover stories, and the idea of Star Trek mixed with the Trojan War is just hilarious.

If I'm wrong and it's nothing to do with that, then don't worry. Still sounds interesting though.
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Old February 14 2014, 09:42 PM   #66
Timewalker
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

Strange Citizen wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
WillsBabe wrote: View Post
I agree that it's easy to find humour in his performance. But his character comes in for a lot of criticism, too.
I will say this: every time I've tried to write serious fanfic with Riker as a character, it always turns into a satire. Riker does not do well in my ST satires (neither does Kirk, for that matter). I still have fond memories of the TNG soap opera parody a friend and I wrote for our ST clubzine... poor Bill Biker and Hellana of Troi didn't fare too well.
That's interesting, I never thought of this kind of thing too much before but when I think about it now, it makes a lot of sense - Riker is the kind of character who's easy to parody and do satires with.

On that note, if you don't mind me asking, did you actually write a soap opera parody of TNG based on the Iliad? Or did you simply use those kinds of names? If it was based on the Iliad, could you please send me a link to it? I'd really like to read it - I love crossover stories, and the idea of Star Trek mixed with the Trojan War is just hilarious.

If I'm wrong and it's nothing to do with that, then don't worry. Still sounds interesting though.
Alas, I have no idea if I've got any copies of this. We wrote it back in 1989-1990, long before either of us had any sort of online accesses. In fact, the first issue was done on my old Smith-Corona typewriter, and the print run was very small.

To answer your question about the plot: No, it had nothing at all to do with the Iliad. We just did a takeoff on Deanna's name, and I automatically connected Troy/Troi. This pair was just a part of the overall soap opera... of course we had a romance going on between "Jaques-Nuc Jacquard" and "Dr. Beverly Smasher" (I didn't pick those names!), and naturally Westley Smasher just had to be a brat and invent a time travel device to rescue his father, Jack Smasher, because he didn't want his mom to marry the Captain! So it was a very tense love triangle in the making...

Then Christmas happened, and Info was given a present that really made him happy: this was our crossover issue, and for some inexplicable reason Narth Dater was feeling in a really good mood and rescued Yasha Tar. I don't actually recall if we had any coherent explanation why a Star Wars villain would go to the trouble of rescuing a Star Trek character and bring her back, but hey - all kinds of unlikely things happen at Christmas, right? I do recall this part of the story came about because I had just mused about what Darth Vader would look like wearing a Santa hat...

We didn't do a lot in that parody with Lieutenant Wharf. This was before a lot of the Klingon stuff started on TNG, so he didn't get much action (other than getting drunk at the senior staff Christmas party).

We actually did more with Worf in another story - a committee-written one where one person would write a few paragraphs and pass it along to someone else. The last chapter I remember of that one had Worf being stuck in a tense situation with a blob of sentient oatmeal porridge (albeit a very smart blob of porridge - it had a doctorate from Harvard, after all), the porridge's pet cat Marmalade, and no rescue in sight...

(yes, we were a very odd group of people )


Anyway, this was a long time ago, pre-internet, with a limited number of copies made of all this stuff. So I'm sorry to have to say that it's not online anywhere, and probably never will be.

But it would be an intriguing idea to do a Star Trek/Trojan War story!
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Old February 15 2014, 07:46 AM   #67
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

Timewalker wrote:
But it would be an intriguing idea to do a Star Trek/Trojan War story!
If that were to happen, Riker is clearly the Trojan Man.
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Old February 15 2014, 09:08 AM   #68
Timewalker
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

Make him Paris.
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Old February 15 2014, 09:22 AM   #69
JD5000
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

Canon suggests Riker always used rubbers, or the futuristic equivalent or at least left no mention of a forwarding address.

Unless he was shooting blanks, which would explain a lot.

Paris made a baby with B'Elanna (wasn't that out of wedlock?) , he would be a bad Trojan Man.
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Old February 15 2014, 09:30 AM   #70
Timewalker
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

Tom and B'Elanna were married when she got pregnant.
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Old February 15 2014, 10:00 AM   #71
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

Either way, it doesn't matter. Paris still made a baby, and Riker didn't. I think this extends beyond canon, I've never read anything that suggests he and Deanna have had a child. Yet. I'm sure a special writer is saving that for a special moment.

Paris could not be the Trojan Man, because he drops the reins and kicks the horse into town. Riker kicks the horse, whatever horse happens to be available, but hangs on to the reins.
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Old February 15 2014, 01:18 PM   #72
The Old Mixer
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

This topic has come up before...I believe DS9 had a reference to "injections" that the male takes....
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Old February 15 2014, 07:16 PM   #73
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

Thanks for your reply, Timewalker.

I've already decided to do it - I'm writing a Troy/Star Trek crossover/parody! It will be broadly funny, but also with plenty of black humour and even some pathos.

Not to go any more off-topic from the original purpose of this thread than we already have done, but now that I've set out to write this story, I need a few ideas for characters - mostly because, who is everyone going to be? So far, I've come up with this list:

Jean-Luc Picard as Agamemnon
William T. Riker as Menelaus
Worf as Achilles
Deanna Troi as Helen of Troy

Disturbingly enough, my first thought for Paris was, and still is Devinoni Ral. And I have no idea who Hector could be, or any of the other Trojans, apart from the Duras family, which makes little sense, lol. Any ideas?

But just to keep this thread a little more on-topic, too:

Personally, I think Riker's habit of putting his foot on peoples' desks was a display of his authority. It's somewhat arrogant, smug, and perhaps even aggressive. But that's what his character was intended to be: TNG's answer to Kirk. Was Kirk like that? In my opinion yes, although in a good way.

Whether Riker's 'physical maneuvers' (for lack of better words)
were also like this and in a good way is up for debate. Personally, I never saw it as a bad thing, but if you remember 'Hollow Pursuits', Deanna said to Riker in that episode something along the lines of: "You are very tall. It could be intimidating to some people" - which, combined with his aforementioned habit of putting his foot on lower-ranking officers' desks, might imply that he does sometimes (or even often) throw his weight around a little too much.
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Old February 15 2014, 09:13 PM   #74
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

JD5000 wrote: View Post
Either way, it doesn't matter. Paris still made a baby, and Riker didn't. I think this extends beyond canon, I've never read anything that suggests he and Deanna have had a child.
O RLY?
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Old February 15 2014, 09:25 PM   #75
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Re: Did You Ever Notice Riker Doing This?

Memory Beta wrote:
This article or section does not adequately cite one of more of its sources, and needs attention. If you can provide references from valid resource material, feel free to edit it to add a citation or correct the data
Besides your source disavowing it's own information, I don't count what happens in video games as remotely canon.

EDIT: OK, brought up in a Titan novel I haven't read, but still inadmissible in any court of Trek. Guess Riker did eventually put on the Daddy pants.
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