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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old February 14 2014, 11:58 PM   #151
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
"In Harm's Way" represents so much of what I don't like in fan productions.
Which is always one of the problems we face: we have all kinds of fans who have conflicting preferences in what they want from fan productions. One man's trash is another man's treasure--and vice versa.
I agree, there are some quite well-regarded fan films that I just cannot watch because they just don't work for me. I don't want to speak negatively of them because they really don't deserve it, these people work very hard to entertain us and the last thing they deserve is to be bashed for their effort.

The fact that I do critique STC is a sign that I do like it's not perfect, but I like it enough to want it to be better.
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Old February 15 2014, 12:05 AM   #152
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
"In Harm's Way" represents so much of what I don't like in fan productions.
Which is always one of the problems we face: we have all kinds of fans who have conflicting preferences in what they want from fan productions. One man's trash is another man's treasure--and vice versa.
It's one of the things that I like and amazes me about Star Trek. I see people say "such and such episode is my favorite of the original series" and it will be an episode that I would rate as near the bottom. I think the best advice is to just do what you do and some folks will like it and some won't.
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Old February 15 2014, 12:15 AM   #153
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

We've got folks who say they love "Care for a Lift?" I detest the thing. It was shot over a couple of hours in 100บ heat without much of a script. It's just too expository, has sound issues, video quality issues. I really hate it. My co-star, Ricky Thompson, loves it. So do a few very vocal fans. I haven't even bothered to list it on IMDB, but geez, some fans love it and Commander Brian Reigert. Go figure...

Like I always say, there's no accounting for taste.

Overall, I really liked LOLANI and plan on watching it again this evening.
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Old February 15 2014, 12:20 AM   #154
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
"In Harm's Way" represents so much of what I don't like in fan productions.
Which is always one of the problems we face: we have all kinds of fans who have conflicting preferences in what they want from fan productions. One man's trash is another man's treasure--and vice versa.
The thing with fan productions is that they can cater to different audiences and unlike "official" Trek is not offered up as the sole thing you have access to. Do all fans of Trek lit read every single book that comes out? Hardly likely. The nature of fandom's diversity is that you can focus on only those things that interest you and leave the rest. And does one take away from the other?

Why should fan films be any different than the official versions of Trek on film and television? Chances are most fans focus on what interests them and basically ignore the rest.
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Old February 15 2014, 12:34 AM   #155
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Maurice wrote: View Post
middyseafort wrote: View Post
I've rewatched the episode a few other times and here are my thoughts. First, congrats to the STAR TREK CONTINUES team for releasing an episode that captivated my attention and that told a meaningful story.

Well put.
Thanks!
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Old February 15 2014, 01:58 AM   #156
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

This was just fantastic, what can you say. It had me completely drawn in, at no point did I feel like I was watching a fan film.

I watched it with my friend who is not a big Trek fan, and she absolutely adored it, she didn't even realise it was not really Star Trek until she finally became confused about why all the actors were different.
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Old February 15 2014, 08:44 AM   #157
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Lots of interesting comments. I actually had to watch the episode a few times to gather the subtle nuances I might have missed otherwise. What is however immediately obvious and what I like best is that it approaches the process as a 'what if' visual and audible recreation of an era episode (in the same way Exeter did). Going so far as to maintain the nostalgic TOS 4:3 screen ratio and most importantly the same music and cues.

And there are many more subtleties I appreciate like the era correct lighting and the camera direction. Notably the initial extreme close up on the distressed Kenway being held hostage by Lolani. In fact I'd go so far as to say the actor playing Kenway has a future in the business and could be the next Michael J.Fox. 'Back to the Future4' anyone? And Daniel Logan played well as a Chekov style replacement.

I also thought Nemecek offered up a light and whimsical take on McCoy that I thought helped lighten the mood and tone of the message being levied in this episode. And I hope to see his character further develop and get a more cranky fidgety side as well.

With everything there are pro's and cons. And I find that critiquing the cons can usually be of more help than the latter. Having said that I'll agree with some of what a few have already mentioned in so far as Uhura making a more apropos and ironically suitable liaison for Lolani on many different levels. Nevertheless, rather than critique after the fact what can't be modified I want to offer some suggestions on what I think could be improved for future episodes.

Kirk: I'd like to see Vic do a more extreme and more emboldened Shatneresque delivery in voice and mannerism and not hold back. If Vic is in fact playing Shatner as Kirk...let it ring true. As it is I see the physicality and subtleties of a Shatner Kirk but I think its a slow burning pot that hasn't yet boiled its full potential. The nearest I saw this happen was during the dinner sequence when Kirk turned the table on Zaminhon ala 'Space Seed'. In general though Vic does capture the empathetic side of Shatner/Kirk with slight personal modification and that's to be applauded.

Spock: Needs to try and find the subdued emotive range Nimoy played in to the role on nascent levels rather than just the monotone. And search for more comedic reaction in the character. Nimoy made us lightly aware it was there but then that was the genius that is Nimoy. And as someone in this thread pointed out Spock and vulcans in general seem to be a tough role for fanfilms and actors in general to recreate. Unless of course you're Tim Russ.

Episode tonality: Less TNG style drab dialoging and droning and more TOS pacing and imaginative psychedelic anything is possible creativity. That was the TOS I loved.

In general however, a good topical and controversial topic to tackle for a TOS style episode both within the ST universe, and with real world connotations. And I think STC does it in a noble and entertaining manner, which no matter how you slice it deserves credit for going where few fan films have...

Quoting DCR: "The fact that I do critique STC is a sign that I do like it's not perfect, but I like it enough to want it to be better."
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Old February 15 2014, 12:54 PM   #158
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Apparently Larry Nemecek will not be returning as McCoy in Episode 3. He has publicly stated that real life business and conflicting schedules are too time intensive to allow him enough time to play McCoy. I'm not sure who will replace him.

One small observation. Did anyone else note Erin Gray's uniform looked too big for her especially in the sleeves? Nice touch they added a starburst insignia to her uniform.


A note on characterization. It's a fine line between homage and parody. No one can replace the cast that defined these characters for generations of viewers. I suppose it's a matter of channeling elements of the original performance in such a way so they seem to emerge naturally within a new actor's interpretation. Chris Doohan's take on Scotty is not exactly like his father's as it's filtered through Chris' own distinctive character. This is similar to Vic Mignogna's take on Kirk. Neither are or can be exactly like the originals, and even if they were it's questionable if the performances would feel natural.
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Old February 15 2014, 05:06 PM   #159
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Since they'll have to replace McCoy, I hope they get one as good as John Kelly at NV. Although he's clearly not a professional actor, his portrayal of the good Doctor shows a lot of heart. I suspect, however, that the character will be further marginalized in favor of McKenna.
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Old February 15 2014, 05:30 PM   #160
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I believe Chuck Huber, the fellow who played McCoy in the STC vignettes, might be the fellow returning to play McCoy. But then they might get someone else.
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Old February 16 2014, 12:57 AM   #161
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
A note on characterization. It's a fine line between homage and parody. No one can replace the cast that defined these characters for generations of viewers. I suppose it's a matter of channeling elements of the original performance in such a way so they seem to emerge naturally within a new actor's interpretation. Chris Doohan's take on Scotty is not exactly like his father's as it's filtered through Chris' own distinctive character. This is similar to Vic Mignogna's take on Kirk. Neither are or can be exactly like the originals, and even if they were it's questionable if the performances would feel natural.
Excellent point. I've actually been contemplating the same quandary as far as that fine line between parody and serious re-creation. And I think it really depends on the impetus and purpose the actor is looking for. I defer to the many Elvis impersonators or Beatles cover acts, and for that matter any impersonator of a well known actor. Many impersonators are also serious actors, and can play both sides of the range.

http://www.today.com/video/today/49694464#49694464
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Old February 16 2014, 01:32 AM   #162
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I loved it, and forgot I was even watching a 'fan film'. It felt pretty damned professional to me, and apart from the different actors , felt like a missing episode of TOS. Had a certain 'Elaan of Troyius' kind of feel to it, almost. The lighting was all right, the music cues.

Star Trek can be many things, and that's what I love about it. One week you'll get a WW2 submarine-battle adventure in space, the next a romance, then a whimsical comedy episode, then a heavy political drama, etc. I own all 6 shows on DVD and all the movies. There's an episode for just about any occasion.

The only fan films I've seen that really feel like the real McCoy (no pun intended) are New Voyages/Phase 2 and Star Trek Continues. I think there's room for both. More TOS is never a bad thing in my book. I forget I'm even watching different actors after a while. Getting actual stars of the 'real' Star Trek as guests, helps to legitimise them in my mind. Are there any other fan made productions such as these two who boast veterans of official Paramount Trek (behind or in front of the camera)? Of Gods and Men had a rough production quality, but it was great seeing so many familiar faces again .
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Old February 16 2014, 03:00 AM   #163
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I have to say that I got about 15 minutes in and started fast forwarding. Not to diminish the efforts of the cast and crew, but some parts for me just don't do it.

Vic is a good Kirk. He captures, for the most part, what Shatner did in TOS. Sometimes I can squint and see the original cast. That said, there are times when Vic's body language looks stiff and unnatural, as if he is trying too hard to mimick Shatner instead of owning the part. That's neither good nor bad, it's just an observation.

The McKennah character gets on my nerves. The actress is capable enough, but the character is out of place in this setting. It's been said that she is too familiar with her captain, and I agree. It was even pointed out by Lolani.

I've read comments about Lou Ferrigno's speech impediment due to his hearing loss. I've seen him on King of Queens and Chuck, and it's never been an issue for me. Just curious, though: has anyone asked him what he thought about being back in greenface?

A couple other thoughts:

If Haberkorn is going to continue as Spock, he needs to practice his lines looking in a mirror so he can see how his lack of facial expression looks to the rest of us.

The young actor, the one kidnapped and in love with Lolani, doesn't work for me. Is this the actor that Phase 2 cast as their young Kirk for Origins? I don't get that.

Chris Doohan does an amazing job of channeling his father's portrayal of Scotty.

The film grain effect on the space shots (which are very good) doesn't match what I see in the set shots. If it can't be matched more closely, I would leave it out.

The sets and lighting are excellent. Some of the camera shots seem a little ... off. But that's just me. It's hard to duplicate the original series style. I do like the updated titles and opening sequence.

I'll have to go back and watch the episode to the end, but this is my impression from what I've seen.

To any of the cast and crew that might read this, no offense is intended. I'm just relaying my initial reactions. I'm looking forward to more from this group.
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Old February 16 2014, 04:46 AM   #164
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I think the STC group are aware of what's being said here and on their Facebook page. Mind you the FB comments tend to be more gushing and less analytical than here on the TBBS.

I sense they're open to fair minded critique as long as it's offered respectfully. And I think it's safe to assume they've probably gotten more lengthy and detailed feedback through the "contact us" email link on their home website. I know I forwarded much of the same remarks I've made here to them through their website.
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Old February 16 2014, 05:06 AM   #165
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I think the STC group are aware of what's being said here and on their Facebook page. Mind you the FB comments tend to be more gushing and less analytical than here on the TBBS.

I sense they're open to fair minded critique as long as it's offered respectfully. And I think it's safe to assume they've probably gotten more lengthy and detailed feedback through the "contact us" email link on their home website. I know I forwarded much of the same remarks I've made here to them through their website.
Well, the remaining comments tend to be more gushing and less analytical. They also probably receive some less-than-gushing and much more analytical comments on their Facebook page, too, but those are likely excised rather quickly. (Who could blame them, really?)
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