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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old February 12 2014, 05:21 AM   #106
Warped9
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

A couple of things to note, some of them apparent in the two episodes STC has done so far and some revealed in their Q&A session after the premiere of "Lolani."

The STC folks are apparently aware of the fan feedback online, both here on the TBBS and on their Facebook page. I can't comment on how much feedback they get directly through their website, but I imagine it, too, could be significant. I know I forwarded some feedback to them that way.

On their FB page they are getting some intelligent feedback mixed in with the gushing praise and occasional negative remark. The inclusion of a female Starfleet Commodore might have come about because of fan suggestions to the issue. Larry Nemecek (who plays McCoy) has clearly stated his view that he thinks Janice Lester is an embittered loon and her remarks shouldn't be interpreted as Starfleet literally barring women from command positions. So the character of Commodore Gray might be a refutation of Janice Lester's remarks to some extent.

They do seem intent on minimizing influences from other versions of Trek. They were pointedly asked about possible JJtrek influences and Vic Mignogna nipped that one in the bud right there. He didn't say anything derogatory about JJtrek, but he made it clear he wants to emulate TOS and the things that made so many love the series.

That leads to the kind of stories the STC folks seem inclined to lean toward. "Lolani" was a first attempt to tell a story in the Roddenberry sensibility in terms of allegory. If that is indeed the direction they're leaning to then I say hurrah for them. That said while they appreciate the many suggestions fans are throwing at them (including a lot of fannish sequel and followup ideas) they seem more concerned with story first. They were asked about Klingons and the response was if a worthy story came along or could be conceived that worked having Klingons in it then they'd try to make it happen. But the sense was they wouldn't include Klingons (or whatever) just for the hell of it. My sense was they'd like to try exploring the different kinds of stories that TOS was known to do, but ultimately the story is what matters above all: is it a worthwhile story to tell?

In terms of funding they obviously paid for their first episode out of their own pocket (however they did it). The first episode was intended as a pilot of sorts, a proof of concept of what they could do and how they intended to do it. Their Kickstarter campaign had a target that they eventually exceeded in funds raised, enough to finance three episodes of which "Lolani" is the first of the three. They begin filming Episode 3 in March. So we will get Episode 3 this year and maybe Episode 4 as well. Their target, coordinated schedules allowing, is to do two episodes a year. After Episode 4 I believe they will have another Kickstarter campaign and the proceeds of that will again determine how many more episodes they can do next. Their first Kickstarter campaign raised about twenty percent more than they targeted so it could be interpreted as their first episode successfully impressing the target audience.

Essentially I was certainly hearing all the right things I would hope to hear. Now it remains to be seen if they follow through.
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Old February 12 2014, 06:08 AM   #107
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

It was ok, but it was not great,(it was better than what i could oif pulled off) I find it is all little things that detract from the whole. Dr. McKenna is an original character the actor might not have a frame of reference but she seems too modern and her performance/ character seems out of whack -


Spock seem snippy on the bridge but he is getting into the role High marks to Sulu and Scotty

Personally I would like to of seen




Lou was great and Vroom was good,

Also they need more extras in the corridors, the Enterprise looks like a house without her children like they would have any trouble getting extras to walk around the set
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Old February 12 2014, 07:10 AM   #108
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Quite entertaining and the end was a great return to what made TOS such a great show for its time.

Always kinda interesting to see how we have so many TOS fan productions and yet every series has its different strengths and weaknesses.
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Old February 12 2014, 08:09 AM   #109
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Maurice wrote: View Post
RCAM wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post

I actually have a minor quibble with Kirk's argument comparing McKennah with Lolani to Zaminhon: he makes the case that Lolani is just as smart and able...but the issue is not brains and potential here. Lolani could be dumb as a stump and STILL deserve to be treated like any other person. I take his point, but I think it could have been made better.
He actually addresses that. The line is:

"And what about Lolani? She's as learned and capable as any Starfleet officer. Animals do not thirst for knowledge and strive to better themselves. She's consumed a wealth of learning as you've consumed your food, Zaminhon. She's not a slave -- she's a woman. And even without the knowledge, education, beauty, talent -- she is still a woman... with a fundamental right to be free."

At the beginning of the dialogue, he sets up all the qualities she possesses that Zaminhon claims she doesn't, then ends with: "even if she didn't have those things, she's a woman with a right to be free."

At least, that's the only way the line makes sense to me. He's just said she has knowledge, and he obviously thinks she's beautiful, so he isn't asserting that Lolani lacks those things. He's laying out a hypothetical scenario where she's "dumb as a stump" and ugly -- and making the point that she'd still be entitled to freedom.
Ah, you're right. Somehow that latter line didn't stick with me for some reason.
I suspect that the episode might be an answer to Cogenitor, in which Charles' discovery of his/her/its intelligence become a central issue to whether asylum would be granted.

As per the issue we previously discussed: after a second viewing, I am more troubled than before. The episode goes out of its way to highlight the alienness of those who abuse Lolani, particularly in rape scene. Indeed, there is a long history in film of using rape scenes to stoke xenophobia. I believe that this plays into the central theme of Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, wherein the moral decay of the empire (to which Mignogna's Kirk refers) is caused by opening up and conceding to foreign influences. (If Lolani had really read the book, she really ought to have been insulted. Roman slavery was a complex institution, and some were able to become professionals and property owners in spite of their enslavement, and once freed, could have significant lives. Gibbon claims that slavery was only really a problem because slaves introduced foreign influence, particularly after manumission.) I don't find the looseness with which citizenship and sovereignty issues to point to simple errors. It seems to me that the narrative was shoehorned in a particular direction.
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Old February 12 2014, 02:41 PM   #110
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Well, I guess it's my turn at bat. I saw ''Lolani'' on sunday but wanted to give it a repeat viewing before really going over it...

I was surprised to see that it was actually a lot better than their initial episode, and that this time they kept the TNG lovefest to a minimum.



Still an entertainig episode...let's keep on exploring!

Last edited by Bixby; February 12 2014 at 03:57 PM.
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Old February 12 2014, 04:14 PM   #111
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

One thing that occurs to me is that the temptation to add too much can be very strong. For example in my opinion they gussied up the Orion slaver ship and the Tellarite ship a bit too much, The Tellarites (seen in the mind meld sequence) don't look quite like TOS Tellarites. Mind you in some cases it's not a bad thing. In some ways STC can show things TOS could only do if they'd had feature film resources, such as showing people on the hangar deck. If STC were to do a Gorn I'd like to think that maybe, just maybe, the Gorn costume could be somewhat upgraded from the original. But that said I have no interest in seeing the ENT bastardized version of the Gorn. Ditto any overly greebled Tholian ships. In the first episode "Pilgrim Of Eternity" I didn't think the realm artifact belonging to Apollo's people looked quite right in looking very cgi. Essentially I hope they don't go down the road CBS did with overdoing a lot of the enhanced f/x and change for change's sake.

We have to keep in mind that in some ways STC is able to do enhanced f/x and post-production that constraints prevented TOS from doing. That's why we have a gorgeous Doug Drexler cgi model of the Enterprise that can be viewed from any angle whereas the original 11 footer couldn't really allow that. I really like how Drexler did the infamous gridlines in keeping them so very subtle. Here we have an enhanced viewing experience and yet the gridlines are not that visible. It also has to be said that after the episode is complete apparently they add a slight measure of film grain to all the footage similar as was done with the new f/x sequences in the TMP DE. So on viewing the footage looks really clean yet in enlarged stills and screencaps you can see the film grain. A very nice subtle touch to get the desired look.

Seeing what Drexler did with the Enterprise I can only salivate on what he could give us if STC ever shows us a TOS Klingon Battle Cruiser. SWEET!!! (-:
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Old February 12 2014, 04:28 PM   #112
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

The mind meld flashback scenes were actually filmed at Laural Canyon stages (in LA) on the ship set used in Renegades with Kevin Bowers and Ryan Husk as Tellarites who are also in Renegades.

Anyways, great episode guys!! Keep up the good work!
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Old February 12 2014, 06:01 PM   #113
feek61
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Bixby wrote: View Post
Well, I guess it's my turn at bat. I saw ''Lolani'' on sunday but wanted to give it a repeat viewing before really going over it...

I was surprised to see that it was actually a lot better than their initial episode, and that this time they kept the TNG lovefest to a minimum.



Still an entertainig episode...let's keep on exploring!

To address a couple of things you mentioned:

Item #6 - Lolani was raised "off-world" by her parents. It was only after her parents got killed that she was returned to Orion and thus forced into slavery. That is why all the drama with her. She was not use to being a slave but was forced into the trade after a life of freedom. She was not the normal Orion slave girl raised in that life

Item #11 - The knife was from the Slave trader; not the knife that Lolani beamed about with. The knife is in the slave traders belt the entire time he is on board the ship and Lolani grabbed it from his belt when he was on the ground. As far as Kirk coming; it was because the security guard called him so I'm assuming he come down personally to deal with the "guest"
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Old February 12 2014, 06:06 PM   #114
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I really liked the episode. I got to watch it at Sci Fi Expo in Dallas with about 1000 other folks and the audience really got into it. I had the chance to talk to Vic and Todd over the weekend and am more of a fan than ever before

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Old February 12 2014, 08:15 PM   #115
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I enjoyed it immensely, but I have to admit I was having major Katy Perry flashbacks every time I laid eyes on Lolani.
The whole episode really had some of that TOS feel though. A most welcome sensation.
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Old February 12 2014, 08:30 PM   #116
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I liked this one even more than Pilgrim of Eternity, and that's saying something, and I'm certainly hoping for more episodes. McKenna is IMO a great addition to the crew. The younger Doohan is so like his father at times that it's almost spooky and Mignogna's very convincing as Kirk. Some of his mannerisms are very reminiscent of Shatner.
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Old February 12 2014, 09:22 PM   #117
Bixby
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

feek61 wrote: View Post
To address a couple of things you mentioned:

Item #6 - Lolani was raised "off-world" by her parents. It was only after her parents got killed that she was returned to Orion and thus forced into slavery. That is why all the drama with her. She was not use to being a slave but was forced into the trade after a life of freedom. She was not the normal Orion slave girl raised in that life

Item #11 - The knife was from the Slave trader; not the knife that Lolani beamed about with. The knife is in the slave traders belt the entire time he is on board the ship and Lolani grabbed it from his belt when he was on the ground. As far as Kirk coming; it was because the security guard called him so I'm assuming he come down personally to deal with the "guest"
It says in the episode the Orion women were all enslaved by the males about 70 years before. Does that mean her father ''married'' a slave? I'd missed the part where her parents were dead, but it might have been interesting to examine this...

As for the knife, before you mentioned it I hadn't even noticed it was part of Ferrigno's costume. I looked at the scene again and there was no indication that particular knife was seized by Lolani. Fair enough...

Well, if Kirk came because the guard called him, what took the guard so long to come back to the room and notice the Orion wasn't there anymore? He should have been first inside, yet he only showed up long after Kirk did...
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Old February 12 2014, 09:50 PM   #118
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Kirk was headed to see Lolani at the end of the previous scene.
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Old February 12 2014, 10:21 PM   #119
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

[QUOTE=Bixby;9239701]
feek61 wrote: View Post


Well, if Kirk came because the guard called him, what took the guard so long to come back to the room and notice the Orion wasn't there anymore? He should have been first inside, yet he only showed up long after Kirk did...
He was on break, lol

Yes, I agree that it would have been a good idea to have a quick shot of Lolani grabbing the knife from the Slavers belt. That was the knife that she used but should have been made clear.
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Old February 13 2014, 03:39 AM   #120
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Bixby wrote: View Post
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