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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 196 56.32%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 57 16.38%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 38 10.92%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 51 14.66%
I don't know. 6 1.72%
Voters: 348. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 11 2014, 03:59 PM   #1051
JarodRussell
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
Yeah, it wouldn't be the prime time line if it contradicted the Berman-era.
Being a spin-off of TOS, it would have every bit as legitimate a claim on being the "Prime" timeline as any of the current spin-offs have.
No, because the body of TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY is the Prime timeline/continuity.
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Old February 11 2014, 04:23 PM   #1052
Sindatur
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
Yeah, it wouldn't be the prime time line if it contradicted the Berman-era.
Being a spin-off of TOS, it would have every bit as legitimate a claim on being the "Prime" timeline as any of the current spin-offs have.
No, because the body of TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY is the Prime timeline/continuity.
TMP and TWoK were direct Sequels to TOS and Contradicted TOS, so, they're not Prime Tmeline?
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Old February 12 2014, 12:08 AM   #1053
JarodRussell
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Sindatur wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

Being a spin-off of TOS, it would have every bit as legitimate a claim on being the "Prime" timeline as any of the current spin-offs have.
No, because the body of TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY is the Prime timeline/continuity.
TMP and TWoK were direct Sequels to TOS and Contradicted TOS, so, they're not Prime Tmeline?
What, because Khan knew Chekov's face?
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Old February 12 2014, 12:56 AM   #1054
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

TMP and TWOK didn't "contradict" TOS in any significant way.

Still not seeing what the point of this question is, anyway?
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Old February 12 2014, 01:14 AM   #1055
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
Yeah, it wouldn't be the prime time line if it contradicted the Berman-era.
That's simply not true. There are numerous examples of Prime Universe canon in which retcons occurred. Compare GEN with "Relics"; compare ENT with TOS and TNG. Just because something is in Prime Universe canon, that does not mean that it is immune from being retconned. This goes, just as it has gone, for elements of Prime Universe continuity in the "Berman era."

Does this mean that I think radical revisions of Prime Universe continuity will occur in new official Star Trek productions? No, I don't. I really doubt that anything official will be produced in the Prime Universe ever again.
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Old February 12 2014, 01:17 AM   #1056
JarodRussell
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Minor retcons.

Nothing like Vulcan being blown up.

And with all that time travel stuff, it's questionable at best if Enterprise is part of the prime timeline.
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Old February 12 2014, 01:17 AM   #1057
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post

No, because the body of TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY is the Prime timeline/continuity.
TMP and TWoK were direct Sequels to TOS and Contradicted TOS, so, they're not Prime Tmeline?
What, because Khan knew Chekov's face?
Khan's followers were too young to be those on the Botany Bay with him, and too old to be offspring, and were all Arian, and he (Khan) was light skinned.

Klingons in TMP had ridges.

I'm sure others can point to more.

The point is, they were direct Sequels to TOS, and contradicted it, which was said to not be a direct sequel, therefore invalidating the question.

And what new movie or Series blew up Vulcan while claiming to be A Direct Sequel to TOS? The Abrams movies are alternate history/timeline and approx 5-10 years younger, except Chekov, not a Sequel, closer to a Prequel, though not a direct one..
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Last edited by Sindatur; February 12 2014 at 02:02 AM. Reason: cleaned up, and addressed later posts
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Old February 12 2014, 01:43 AM   #1058
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Minor retcons.

Nothing like Vulcan being blown up.

And with all that time travel stuff, it's questionable at best if Enterprise is part of the prime timeline.
It was the stated intent of the showrunners that ENT was in both TOS and TNG continuity. Any idea that it wasn't is fanwank to—wait for it—deal with all the not-so-utterly-minor ways that ENT didn't mesh with previously established Prime Universe continuity.
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Old February 12 2014, 02:08 AM   #1059
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Any idea that it wasn't is fanwank to—wait for it—deal with all the not-so-utterly-minor ways that ENT didn't mesh with previously established Prime Universe continuity.
I'm personally fond of the idea that the Temporal Cold War makes ENT an alternate timeline, though I know it's not official. It really would handily eliminate all the continuity problems.
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Old February 12 2014, 04:20 AM   #1060
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Minor retcons.

Nothing like Vulcan being blown up.

And with all that time travel stuff, it's questionable at best if Enterprise is part of the prime timeline.
It was the stated intent of the showrunners that ENT was in both TOS and TNG continuity. Any idea that it wasn't is fanwank to—wait for it—deal with all the not-so-utterly-minor ways that ENT didn't mesh with previously established Prime Universe continuity.
Wasn't the show runner's intent to be free of the prime timeline and style, from introducing new temporal aliens to changing the opening theme? They may have tried to work their way back to the prime timeline but that wasn't the premise.
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Old February 12 2014, 04:24 AM   #1061
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

bbjeg wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Minor retcons.

Nothing like Vulcan being blown up.

And with all that time travel stuff, it's questionable at best if Enterprise is part of the prime timeline.
It was the stated intent of the showrunners that ENT was in both TOS and TNG continuity. Any idea that it wasn't is fanwank to—wait for it—deal with all the not-so-utterly-minor ways that ENT didn't mesh with previously established Prime Universe continuity.
Wasn't the show runner's intent to be free of the prime timeline and style, from introducing new temporal aliens to changing the opening theme? They may have tried to work their way back to the prime timeline but that wasn't the premise.
It was never their intent to be free of the Prime timeline. If anything, all the temporal incursions were supposed to ultimately result in the Prime Universe as we knew it in TOS.
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Old February 12 2014, 05:30 AM   #1062
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
If anything, all the temporal incursions were supposed to ultimately result in the Prime Universe as we knew it in TOS.
Which of course makes no sense. But I half-wonder if despite this intention, the Temporal Cold War and ENT's many retcons wound up inspiring the "alternate universe" reboot.
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Old February 12 2014, 06:44 AM   #1063
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Do I want the PRIME timeline back? I guess so. What I really want is for Star Trek to be about ideas and exploration and humanity again. I don't want it to be dark and angry and ANOTHER revenge story. I want it to be Star Trek in idea, not aesthetic.
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Old February 12 2014, 08:48 AM   #1064
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Agreed, revenge stories are getting old. I think that's why a show would be better than even a series of movies, because a show needs more stories to tell than just a fight against one enemy. Both JJ movies have been revenge stories, as were TWoK and Nemesis. Time for something else.
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Old February 12 2014, 08:58 AM   #1065
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post

It was the stated intent of the showrunners that ENT was in both TOS and TNG continuity. Any idea that it wasn't is fanwank to—wait for it—deal with all the not-so-utterly-minor ways that ENT didn't mesh with previously established Prime Universe continuity.
Wasn't the show runner's intent to be free of the prime timeline and style, from introducing new temporal aliens to changing the opening theme? They may have tried to work their way back to the prime timeline but that wasn't the premise.
It was never their intent to be free of the Prime timeline. If anything, all the temporal incursions were supposed to ultimately result in the Prime Universe as we knew it in TOS.
Sorry, on second reading, I see that I simply echoed what you said in the underlined passage.

Here is the Rick Berman interview I was thinking of (full interview available at link).

HIGHLIGHTS
[...]
Berman on Enterprise [2:08:20 - 2:39:15]
[...]
  • Berman disagrees with fans who felt he and co-creator Brannon Braga ignored Star Trek canon and continuity, noting "we absolutely didn’t, we tried to pay great attention to it"
  • [...]
  • Cites Manny Coto and ties to TOS for critical success of fourth season and felt "isn’t any doubt we could have gone on for another three [seasons] if we had been given the chance"
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