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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old February 11 2014, 05:34 PM   #91
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I sort of like the titles for all the episodes of Friends. They all start with "The One with...."

I kind of like the convention that some shows adopt: "The One with...," "Mr. Monk...," and "Night of The...," etc.

I also like the episode titles in Police Squad, but that's a different story.

ssosmcin wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
I forgot to mention that the title was pretty unimaginative. Yes, there was "Gem" on Star Trek, but that one word/name title is the exception rather than the rule.
Well, there was the episode "Miri," and the aborted episode "Joanna." But indeed, those were exceptions to the general episode title trend. I think the "single name" episode titles really picked up steam with TNG (e.g. "Sarek").
At the same time, a lot of fan films take on some of the most pretentious episode titles in Trek history. Like "Whose Birth These Triumphs Are" or even "For Want of a Nail." Good god. The contents never justify such high minded titles.

Give me me "Arena", "Catspaw" or "Lolani" and "The Child" any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Simple and they get the episode's point across a lot more clearly. Yeah, I know: "For the World is Hollow and I have Touched the Sky." But you know something, it perfectly states the point of the episode.

Oy. Sometimes I think the titles are created first ("Hey, original Trek did 'Dagger of the Mind.' Shakespeare!").
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Old February 11 2014, 06:33 PM   #92
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

geneo wrote: View Post
Yep, no chemistry and Vic needs a few more acting lessons as Kirk or something, I'm not sold yet.
I think Vic has a quality that eludes anyone else I've seen, but, of course, he can never be Shatner's Kirk. Then again it's a fine line to walk between a respectful homage and parody. I also think if he were playing the role more frequently, like when shooting a series, he would gel more consistently. I think Vic sometimes exagerrates the body language just a bit too much, but then again I'm sure it's not an easy thing to get right since I think Vic does it better than anyone else.

Haberkorn's Spock is also a bit hit-and-miss. I don't find him bad, but I think he misses some opportunities. Nimoy had a way of making a soft scowl telegraph so many different meanings. So Haberkorn should exercise those eyebrows. I think he should also study Nimoy's body language as TOS era Spock.

McCoy is also hit-and-miss because, like Nimoy and Shatner, DeForest Kelly defined the role. There's a nuance in McCoy's sarcasm that if you don't get it you're either bland or come across as just crabby. STC still hasn't got a hang of the Spock/McCoy jousting.

Chris Doohan is usually pretty good as Scotty. I particularly like him when he's doing serious scenes.

Kim Stinger's Uhura lacks a quality that isnt easy to duplicate. She doesn't have Nichelle Nichols' exotic aura. Nichols had something of an exotic catlike quality to her that was fantastic. That aside what I would like to see is Uhura given more to do similar to what was done with Hoshi in ENT. We also saw a touch of this in James Blish's novel Spock Must Die where Uhura has talents beyond working the communications station.
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Old February 11 2014, 08:29 PM   #93
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I'm putting this episode on my 'to watch' list for tonight to check it against the pros and cons I've read so far.
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Old February 11 2014, 09:12 PM   #94
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I watched "Lolani," Star Trek Continues' second full-length outing Sunday night after a weekend away in Bakersfield with my girlfriend, so forgive me if some of this has already been covered.


Last edited by doubleohfive; February 11 2014 at 11:13 PM.
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Old February 11 2014, 09:40 PM   #95
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

In the scenes between Kirk and Commodore Gray we actually don't know who called who. We neither hear Kirk say, "Get me Starfleet Command." nor hear, "Captain, incoming message from Starfleet."

Also how quickly news seems to be going back and forth the Enterprise mightn't have been far from Starbase where Commodore Gray was stationed. And in extent they mightn't have been that far from Orion either given Zaminhon reached the Enterprise in thirty-two hours.

Yeah, rationalizations. It's what we fans do.
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Old February 11 2014, 10:18 PM   #96
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
I watched "Lolani," Star Trek Continues' second full-length outing Sunday night after a weekend away in Bakersfield with my girlfriend, so forgive me if some of this has already been covered.
Interesting thoughts. The only minor disagreement, not to say quibble, I have is the implication that a story has to either be a serious one, or a mindless space battle. I don't think it's a black and white, either/or situation. Certainly the upcoming show you mentioned could end up as a mindless shoot-em-up, but I think there's the possibility of something more substantive. We shall see.
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Old February 11 2014, 10:23 PM   #97
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

MikeH92467 wrote: View Post
doubleohfive wrote: View Post
I watched "Lolani," Star Trek Continues' second full-length outing Sunday night after a weekend away in Bakersfield with my girlfriend, so forgive me if some of this has already been covered.
Interesting thoughts. The only minor disagreement, not to say quibble, I have is the implication that a story has to either be a serious one, or a mindless space battle. I don't think it's a black and white, either/or situation. Certainly the upcoming show you mentioned could end up as a mindless shoot-em-up, but I think there's the possibility of something more substantive. We shall see.
Oh, I agree. I just felt like of the bigger, near-pro productions we generally get regular releases from, this was the first time where there wasn't any need for a big space battle. I mean, come on. How many episodes of Phase II begin with some kind of starship engagement? There are certainly great stories to be told that do involve space battles; I'm just tired of seeing them in fan films.

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Old February 11 2014, 10:28 PM   #98
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

It would certainly be interesting to see if STC or any other production would attempt something like "Shore Leave," "The Trouble With Tribbles," "I, Mudd" or "A Piece Of The Action."

Mind you nothing as absurd as "I, Mudd" or "A Piece Of The Action," but something with a distinct humourous bent.


In "Lolani" I think Scotty had two of the best lines and each delivered perfectly.

"He seems nice...for a slave trader."

"Lolani says you're a brutal monster."
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Old February 12 2014, 12:31 AM   #99
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

One of the problems we face as Fan Productions working on a shoestring budget with cardboard sets and volunteer actors, (and volunteer just about everything else, for that matter), is that it's a challenge to get people to take our show seriously as it is. (We often get the "Community Theater" comparisons--which is understandable.)

I think it would be an uphill battle to successfully pull off a comedic episode, although I think we're not actually averse to trying. (I recall both STC's and Exeter's "Night Shift" shorts.) Personally, I'd like to push the envelope a bit of what constitutes a "Star Trek" episode--maybe a comedy, maybe a musical, maybe an episode entirely in an alien language like Klingon or Vulcan but subtitled for those few fans who don't speak any of those alien languages.

Mostly, venturing too far out of the Trek formula might be more trouble than it's worth. Fortunately, we have a Senior Executive Producer and a Show Runner who get to make those kinds of decisions. (Also David Gerrold has been working on a "Tribbles" follow-up episode for us, but the scuttlebutt is that he's going counter-intuitive with it, and it's more scary than it is funny. So that might not actually scratch the "unconventional Trek episode" itch we might be having.)



Warped9 wrote: View Post
It would certainly be interesting to see if STC or any other production would attempt something like "Shore Leave," "The Trouble With Tribbles," "I, Mudd" or "A Piece Of The Action."

Mind you nothing as absurd as "I, Mudd" or "A Piece Of The Action," but something with a distinct humourous bent.


In "Lolani" I think Scotty had two of the best lines and each delivered perfectly.

"He seems nice...for a slave trader."

"Lolani says you're a brutal monster."
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Old February 12 2014, 12:48 AM   #100
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

The thing is TOS did a variety of stories. They did brinksmanship stories, allegory, horror, romance, adventure and comedy and a mixture of those. So a light hearted episode, like "The Trouble With Tribbles" or "Shore Leave," is not outside the Star Trek envelope.


On another note here is the STC Episode 2 Q&A session after the Dallas premiere of "Lolani."

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=y...ure%3Dyoutu.be
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Old February 12 2014, 12:59 AM   #101
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I mostly agree with Doubleohfive's review. A few points that occurred to me since I first reviewed this:

The drama should have been on the ship, not coming from Starfleet. As in many classic Trek segments, Spock should have served as a reminder of what their regulations state, with Bones making the humanitarian case, and Kirk caught in the middle.

A simple line to the effect that the Tellarites on the ship were not Federation citizens would have effectively tied Kirk's hands because it would make the problem outside of his jurisdiction. Then it'd really be about "doing what's right vs. doing what's required."

The easy way around the McKennah insubordination problem is to play it OFF the bridge and have her say, "permission to speak freely, sir" and there you go. Gloves come off.

I actually suspected Kirk to force Zaminhon's hand by goading him into attacking Kirk, which would suddenly give Kirk some authority over the situation (violating ship regulations or whatnot).

I was really irritated that it took them so damned long to give Lolani something other than her slave clothes to wear. McKennah should have put a blanket or something over her in sickbay almost right away.

I actually have a minor quibble with Kirk's argument comparing McKennah with Lolani to Zaminhon: he makes the case that Lolani is just as smart and able...but the issueis not brains and potential here. Lolani could be dumb as a stump and STILL deserve to be treated like any other person. I take his point, but I think it could have been made better.
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Old February 12 2014, 01:42 AM   #102
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

There was a goof made story wise. When McKennah says she has something Lolani should like (referring to clothes) the next time we see Lolani she should be wearing somehing other than her slave attire. But we don't see that till later so that's a goof.


aridas shared his review on his own Federation Reference Series site and I feel it's worth being shared.

aridas wrote:
Spoilers for those that haven't yet seen the webisode.

I loved Lou Ferrigno as an Orion. You have to give the producers credit on that one. They didn't dub his voice. They ignored the criticism they were likely to get for casting a green guy to... play a green guy. I loved him in the role. He was every inch the equal of Montalban as Khan. I didn't see him as the Hulk. I saw him as a damned important Orion that could beat Kirk in every way, but still manage to lose.

THIS is what I mean by the way TWoK should have been told. And even "Space Seed"- Without spoiling it too much for anyone, let me say you are in for a treat. It is that raritiy in TOS, a story with a message where the preaching is handled more with nuance than bluster. In the normal course of TOS, the Federation's values are said to be very American values- individual freedom in the pursuit of one's individual life, liberty and happiness. On a societal level however, we are told the Federation practices non-interference. Non-interference is such an important guiding light for them in fact that they call it their "Prime Directive". And yet repeatedly we see Kirk break that Prime Directive because presumably, he is such a strong believer in the Federation's more libertarian values that he is willing to risk himself, his crew, his ship and his career to embody them.

And yet, in doing so Kirk is acting on behalf of not James T. Kirk but the United Federation of Planets. HIS culture has presumably considered its options and decided that it may use its representatives to other cultures - him - to preach but not to compel, to establish trade but not to fight. The only time the terrible weapon that is the starship Enterprise is authorized to fight is when Starfleet's primary mission - defending the Federation by projecting its power within its sphere of influence and beyond - is compromised. The Federation's citizens choose to build starships to carry out that mission, and while they may believe in individual freedom, they are not willing to expend their scarce resources to make all life forms free. Contrast this with Captain Kirk, a man entrusted with one of those starships and the job of representing the Federation to friend, foe and stranger. He believes in his culture's libertarian values but... so what? Well, it makes us respect him. Honor him. Be interested in what he says and does because, after all, he reflects the best in us. If he saw a man being cut down by the police with a fire hose merely because of the color of his skin he would intercede, despite the fact that in doing so he would be putting not just James Kirk on the line but the entire United Federation of Planets.

And there is the problem.

Time and time again we see this dilemna in TOS between our individual ideals and the practical necessities of how a society must behave in the jungle of relations with other societies - crassly and self interested. We must try to understand, of course. But always in the pursuit of self preservation (which is after all, why we establish federations and fleets). It is the conflict played out by MacArthur and Truman, and we know how that had to turn out for the military to continue to serve society rather than society serve the military.

But in TOS, time and again we are shown Kirk representing his society's individualist values against itself and never being made to pay the price because, of course, he had to be around next week to do it again. We never saw what it would really mean to have a captain running around meddling in the affairs of others to the point of overturning governments and starting wars without reprimand or worse.

And that was a very big problem with TOS. As a result, Kirk was rarely made to face the prospect of paying the big price- of not just talking like JFK but also walking in the shoes of JFK's heroes from Profiles in Courage- doing what you believe is right to the point you are willing to lose power and even be forgotten by history.

But not in this episode. In "Lolani", the writers acknowledged the box a man like Kirk is put within when he accepts his commission. And they let him walk right to the edge, to be willing to lose that commission. In so doing we get to REALLY see what matters to him. Even more than being captain of his ship. This is the real James Kirk, stripped right to his core being. It's why everything after TOS that put him on a pedestal smacked of BS and marketing. THIS Kirk would have been lucky to finish his 5YM, not to mention his career. He would have ended up the last chapter in some future historian's Profiles in Courage redux. And we all would have been better for the telling of THOSE tales.
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Old February 12 2014, 02:28 AM   #103
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

Maurice wrote: View Post

I actually have a minor quibble with Kirk's argument comparing McKennah with Lolani to Zaminhon: he makes the case that Lolani is just as smart and able...but the issue is not brains and potential here. Lolani could be dumb as a stump and STILL deserve to be treated like any other person. I take his point, but I think it could have been made better.
He actually addresses that. The line is:

"And what about Lolani? She's as learned and capable as any Starfleet officer. Animals do not thirst for knowledge and strive to better themselves. She's consumed a wealth of learning as you've consumed your food, Zaminhon. She's not a slave -- she's a woman. And even without the knowledge, education, beauty, talent -- she is still a woman... with a fundamental right to be free."

At the beginning of the dialogue, he sets up all the qualities she possesses that Zaminhon claims she doesn't, then ends with: "even if she didn't have those things, she's a woman with a right to be free."

At least, that's the only way the line makes sense to me. He's just said she has knowledge, and he obviously thinks she's beautiful, so he isn't asserting that Lolani lacks those things. He's laying out a hypothetical scenario where she's "dumb as a stump" and ugly -- and making the point that she'd still be entitled to freedom.
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Old February 12 2014, 02:38 AM   #104
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

RCAM wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post

I actually have a minor quibble with Kirk's argument comparing McKennah with Lolani to Zaminhon: he makes the case that Lolani is just as smart and able...but the issue is not brains and potential here. Lolani could be dumb as a stump and STILL deserve to be treated like any other person. I take his point, but I think it could have been made better.
He actually addresses that. The line is:

"And what about Lolani? She's as learned and capable as any Starfleet officer. Animals do not thirst for knowledge and strive to better themselves. She's consumed a wealth of learning as you've consumed your food, Zaminhon. She's not a slave -- she's a woman. And even without the knowledge, education, beauty, talent -- she is still a woman... with a fundamental right to be free."

At the beginning of the dialogue, he sets up all the qualities she possesses that Zaminhon claims she doesn't, then ends with: "even if she didn't have those things, she's a woman with a right to be free."

At least, that's the only way the line makes sense to me. He's just said she has knowledge, and he obviously thinks she's beautiful, so he isn't asserting that Lolani lacks those things. He's laying out a hypothetical scenario where she's "dumb as a stump" and ugly -- and making the point that she'd still be entitled to freedom.
Ah, you're right. Somehow that latter line didn't stick with me for some reason.
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Old February 12 2014, 04:37 AM   #105
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Re: Star Trek Continues: Episode 2 "Lolani"...

I speak honestly when I say that this is the first episode of any fan film series that has held my attention for 100% of the running time.

I enjoyed it so much that I don't even feel right mentioning any minor quibbles I had. I'm sure it's nothing the team themselves aren't already aware of. (They're the ones trying to stretch that money as faaaaaar as they possibly can, so they know the limitations better than any of us.)

Just a great, great job by everyone. Highly enjoyable, and I cannot wait for the next one.
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