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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old February 9 2014, 03:11 PM   #61
Shaka Zulu
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Shatner has been in as many Trek movies as Connery was in Bond movies. And that's not counting three seasons of TOS. That's a good long run, I think, and more than enough for anyone.
THIS.

It's way past time for everybody to accept Chris Pine as Kirk (along with Brian Goss from Star Trek Phase II).
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Old February 9 2014, 09:05 PM   #62
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Shatner has been in as many Trek movies as Connery was in Bond movies. And that's not counting three seasons of TOS. That's a good long run, I think, and more than enough for anyone.
THIS.

It's way past time for everybody to accept Chris Pine as Kirk (along with Brian Goss from Star Trek Phase II).
While I like Pine as Kirk just fine, and while I agree that bringing back Shatner for the movie to play Kirk one more time really isn't necessary*, why don't we let people decide for themselves what or whom they'll accept and when? Wagging a figurative finger at people while telling them what it's time for them to accept is probably not going to be very productive (not to mention that it has a way of making one come across as a scold.)


* I thought the Gorn commercial was good fun, though.
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Old February 9 2014, 09:45 PM   #63
Brutal Strudel
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

I could have done without Nimoy and the alt. timeline fig leaf. NuTrek is a straight up reboot, as radically divorced from TOS as Casino Royale (either one) is from Dr. No.
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Old February 10 2014, 12:38 AM   #64
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Except it isn't really a reboot, some people just keep insisting that it is.
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Old February 10 2014, 12:58 AM   #65
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Nah, it's essentially a reboot--with a cute time-travel fig leaf.
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Old February 10 2014, 01:01 AM   #66
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Yeah, people keep insisting that, but those people didn't make the films.
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Old February 10 2014, 01:10 AM   #67
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Nah, it's essentially a reboot--with a cute time-travel fig leaf.
Thanks.
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Old February 10 2014, 05:16 AM   #68
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

If it gets repeated enough times, it becomes true!
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Old February 10 2014, 08:01 AM   #69
Brutal Strudel
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

So in the Prime Universe, they had the resources to build a Galaxy Class-sized ship on the ground? They had warp engines that spat rocket exhaust, even though GR explicitly reiterated that Warp Drive did not run on exhaust propulsion principles and that the E was so big (and so unfit for atmospheric flight) that she spent her entire life--birth to death--in space (and her one blue sky adventure, "Tommorow Is Yeterday," saw her compromised by atmospheric flight she stumbled into)? This mega-ship doubles as the frakking SeaView! Hell, they couldn't even leave Sam Kirk Sam Kirk in the final cut, he became Johnny and Jim implicitly an only child. (Lucas-Cambellian monomyth heroes--of which Kirk was never one--only have siblings they open-mouth kiss... and that's a ret-con only because Lucas couldn't be bothered with resolving a real love triangle.)

Writer "intent" be damned (hence the term fig leaf), these guys remade Trek in their image. I like it but it is more believably an extension of Gold Key comics, Peter Pan story records and Mego playsets than the show that ran on NBC from 1967 to 1969. Spocktimus Prime doesn't change that.

Let the turkey cherry-picking begin. I'll start: "It's no dumber than 'Spock's Brain'!"
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Old February 10 2014, 08:54 AM   #70
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

It sounds like you're telling me what these guys did while simultaneously throwing out their intent. I'm not sure that makes sense.
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Old February 10 2014, 09:02 AM   #71
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Sure it does. What they did--the liberties they took, the changes they made--trumps what they say they intened. I doubt Abrams, who never much liked Trek to begin with, cared either way.

I have no problem with reboots: I love that there are myriad Batmen and James Bonds. I just wish Trek had owned it rather than try to provide a ricketty and unconvincing bridge back to TOS. And I really wish it had ignored ENT entirely. We can't get a "Hey, Sam!" as Kirk speeds along but we can get Admiral Archer's prize beagle? I prefer my easter eggs not smell of sulphur.
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Old February 10 2014, 09:14 AM   #72
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Brutal Strudel wrote:
So in the Prime Universe, they had the resources to build a Galaxy Class-sized ship on the ground?
How can they have the resources to build a ship in space yet not on the ground?

Brutal Strudel wrote:
What they did--the liberties they took, the changes they made--trumps what they say they intened.
Yet there is no essential conflict between these things, so there is no need for anything to be trumped, unless it is to say that the intent of the film creators trumps spin generated by random people on the internet. They made no changes which cannot be explained by the divergence of the timeline, outside of cosmetic stuff that really wasn't intended to be overinterpreted and which occurred in a previously unexplored year of the timeline anyway.

Brutal Strudel wrote:
I doubt Abrams, who never much liked Trek to begin with, cared either way.
It's a free country; you're allowed to speculate. But it isn't really worth very much.
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Old February 10 2014, 10:00 AM   #73
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

As you wish. Oh, but say: why was the ISS built in space? I mean, we had the resources to ferry up the modules and assemble then in LEO, why not just do it near a dive bare in Iowa?

The world may never know...
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Old February 10 2014, 01:00 PM   #74
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
So in the Prime Universe, they had the resources to build a Galaxy Class-sized ship on the ground?
In "Parallels", we see a Galaxy-class ship being built on the surface of Mars.
They had warp engines that spat rocket exhaust, even though GR explicitly reiterated that Warp Drive did not run on exhaust propulsion principles and that the E was so big (and so unfit for atmospheric flight) that she spent her entire life--birth to death--in space (and her one blue sky adventure, "Tommorow Is Yeterday," saw her compromised by atmospheric flight she stumbled into)?
So what are the red streaks zooming from the rear of the nacelles in movies II-VI? And the Enterprise NX-01 flying over NYC?
This mega-ship doubles as the frakking SeaView! Hell, they couldn't even leave Sam Kirk Sam Kirk in the final cut, he became Johnny and Jim implicitly an only child. (Lucas-Cambellian monomyth heroes--of which Kirk was never one--only have siblings they open-mouth kiss... and that's a ret-con only because Lucas couldn't be bothered with resolving a real love triangle.)
Underwater ships we've seen before in Trek (Insurrection), as well as ships swimming through giant Space Amoebas and endless other ridiculous stuff. And Scotty even points out "how ridiculous it is to hide a starship at the bottom of the ocean"
Writer "intent" be damned (hence the term fig leaf), these guys remade Trek in their image. I like it but it is more believably an extension of Gold Key comics, Peter Pan story records and Mego playsets than the show that ran on NBC from 1967 to 1969. Spocktimus Prime doesn't change that.
As happened in TMP, TWoK, TNG and ENT. Seriously, have you tried to compare TOS and TMP or WoK? It's like entirely different universes. The ship couldn't look more different in TMP, and then by WoK somehow technology has gone from showers which beam clothing onto the occupant to torpedoes having to be manually loaded. Not to mention, Khan and his followers changing radically in what was supposed to be a direct sequel to an old episode.
Let the turkey cherry-picking begin. I'll start: "It's no dumber than 'Spock's Brain'!"
It's all happened before and will all happen again next iteration of Trek. Just because technical manuals and chronologies and novels gloss over the big changes in direction for Trek doesn't mean they're not there staring you right in the face. Trek's continuity is complete illusion. That someone will suspend disbelief for everything up until the latest round of changes seems rather ridiculous. Of course it's a reboot, but since we pretended the last half dozen were part of a continuous universe, I don't see what has to change now.
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Old February 10 2014, 03:30 PM   #75
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Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

Brutal Strudel wrote: View Post
Oh, but say: why was the ISS built in space?
How is it that an organization which had multiple starbases all over the place in the 2260s is imagined to not have the "resources" to build a ship of "Galaxy class" size, on the ground or otherwise? How does that make sense?

( And yes, by all means let's refer to the real world, in which spaceships built on the ground somehow make it into orbit! )
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