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Old January 5 2014, 11:51 AM   #1006
Guy Gardener
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Above was a plot point on an episode of Century City, a show made 10 years ago about Lawyers in 2030.

This guy was suing for intentional infliction of emotional distress and fraud becuase after he had finished having sex with this girl (Rosealee from Grimm if you watch that.), he noticed that she "also" had a surgically grafted aesthetic (though completely real in post respects) penis.
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Old February 2 2014, 02:09 PM   #1007
JanetJaneway
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Godless Raven wrote: View Post
Was Janeway's decision to kill Tuvix, after the Doctor refused to do so, the right decision? Is it murder?
The issue has sparked a lot of discussion... On the one side Janeway is right: Tuvix is the result of the merger between Neelix and Tuvok, on the other side ... Well, Tuvix is a sentient being, is alive, he has friends ...
I think it is a murder. Although Tuxok and Neelix formed Tuvix.

Anyway, I think if I had been Janeway would have done the same...
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Old February 2 2014, 02:45 PM   #1008
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Do you think that if "something" like a bug bite had required putting the Captain and her first Officer into a medically induced coma, that Tuvix would have been made Captain?
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Old February 2 2014, 09:31 PM   #1009
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

No. He is too compromised, a wild card.
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Old February 2 2014, 09:47 PM   #1010
JanetJaneway
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

I'm not saying that would be given immediately the degree and the confidence that they had earned Tuvok or Neelix. He would have had to earn. Once this is done, yes, for me it would have been made in command. Take Seven of Nine: At the beginning she was discriminated against by all, more than half the crew was against her. Then by the time she has earned the trust of everyone.
The point however is not that. It was a living being, it was alive, was sentient. For me it would haven't to die.
However, given the situation, given all the pros and cons I would have done what Janeway did. I also would have done back Tuvok and Neelix, I just say that it is still murder. Although Tuvix includes two people is a sentient being and deserve to live.
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Old February 2 2014, 10:33 PM   #1011
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

But Tuvix kept making Kes feel skeevy because she had to tell him incessantly in increasing volume that she was not going to #### him.

That makes him a de facto rapist bordering on a de facto paedophile because of her age.

Case in point, there's a 60 percent chance that Kes and Neelix never slept together intimately, and the sex urge propelling Tuvix into that dirty, dirty, dirty sort of relationship wth the little blonde girl who is unprepared for anyhting so hot and moist, came totally from the Tuvok side of the genetic soup that made up Tuvix.

But that is what it came down to, Tuvix had to die becuase he was unfrakkable by Kes' high standards.

By that thinking, Tom should have been able to maroon or murder Janeway after she raped him and B'Elanna should have been able to maroon or murder Vorrik after he "mind" raped her into a sexual frenzy where she alsmot raped Tom... Didn't Kashak have the moral high ground becuase he was kissing Janeway becuase she was pretty?

Amazing the double standards you can find if you peel back a couple layers.

teacake wrote: View Post
No. He is too compromised, a wild card.
The First Officer was terrorist scum.

Hypothetically how many weeks would they have had to have been in the Delta Qudrant, before Tuvok would have allowed power to pass to Chakotay down the chain of command after what seemed like an accident caused Janeways untimely death?

Oh.

I was thinking seaosn 3.

Any time before seaosn three and Tuvok would have double tapped the back of Chakotays head with a compression rifle, which has me rethinking about Resolutions?

Did Chakotay really get bit by a bug so terribley that he had to be marooned with Janeway, or did someone intentionally infect him quickly after they saw what happened to Janeway when it seemed like the Ship would be lost to Maquis control?

I could see either the Doctor having protocols to keep the command structure Starfleet heavy and I could see Tuvok being a complete asshole, he doesn't crave power, but there is no way he should trust a terrorist with the lives of the 150 crew and their mission home that early in the game.
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Old February 3 2014, 04:47 AM   #1012
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

He trusts Janeway's decisions, and he trusts starfleet protocol in that Vulcan stickler way. Though I think he should derail Chak taking over the ship early on at the death of the Captain those two factors I believe would prevent him from doing so.
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Old February 3 2014, 06:27 AM   #1013
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

He trusts Janeway's results, but Tuvok has no idea how the fucked up totally wrong decisions this illogical human makes always lead to a pleasant outcome by stories end.

He fights her a lot (Prime Factors, the Omega Directive, the Void.), and then mostly has to admit that he was wrong and she was right because that's how the rulesin this universe works. Janeway always wins no matter how messed up her proccess is..
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Old February 3 2014, 06:43 AM   #1014
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Yes! Yes! This is why she rose from the dead as well!!
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Old February 3 2014, 11:18 AM   #1015
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
He trusts Janeway's results, but Tuvok has no idea how the fucked up totally wrong decisions this illogical human makes always lead to a pleasant outcome by stories end.

He fights her a lot (Prime Factors, the Omega Directive, the Void.), and then mostly has to admit that he was wrong and she was right because that's how the rulesin this universe works. Janeway always wins no matter how messed up her proccess is..
So, his ending up in that asylum is not unlike Inspector Dreyfus after years of of seeing Clouseau's antics work out?
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Old February 3 2014, 11:40 AM   #1016
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

^

does your dog bite..?
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Old February 15 2014, 08:26 PM   #1017
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Godless Raven wrote: View Post
Was Janeway's decision to kill Tuvix, after the Doctor refused to do so, the right decision? Is it murder?
No, it was not the right decision.

Yes, it absolutely was murder.

Janeway should have been court marshaled by the Federation and then found guilty of murder and sentenced to life in prison.

That is definitely what the Federation would do if it was not hypocritical and if it truly valued all life as it claims to be its core value.
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Old February 15 2014, 08:36 PM   #1018
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Can you imagine Tom visiting Janeway in the New Zealand Penal Colony?

Bookends, y'know?
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Old February 16 2014, 08:29 PM   #1019
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

So, I cant read 1000 posts on this so I'll just chip in with my opinion.

Janeway was right.

Tuvix is a freak accident. No history, no family. Is it unfortunate, even tragic? Yes.

But what would have been more tragic is abandoning two men with lives, with careers and [in Tuvok's case] with families to die. Janeway could not afford to let sentiment get in the way of restoring two real crewmen who were forced together to create a hybrid.

Sure its uncomfortable. Its meant to be. However, in my opinion, Janeway made the only real choice there was: fix the mistake and save two lives.
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Old February 16 2014, 10:51 PM   #1020
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

She was fixing a transporter accident.
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