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Old January 16 2014, 02:02 PM   #16
Bad Thoughts
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

Lance wrote: View Post
USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
Khan444 wrote: View Post
This isn't Mulgrew's fault, her acting was fine.
Speaking of which, if this is a reasonably popular fan theory about Janeway, as Lance said, has anyone ever asked Mulgrew about it?
Mulgrew was apparently as frustrated as everyone else was at how inconsistently the Captain was being written. So I don't think she has probably rationalized it in these terms.

But speaking personally, I like this theory (which I have heard being put forward quite a few times around the internet) a lot better than the OTHER popular internet fan theory: that Janeway was bipolar.
I can't remember any interview in which she goes into the specifics of her character. While proud of Janeway, Mulgrew does seem to say much about Janeway as a feminist icon beyond being "in the captain's chair." After watching the Shatner interviews, I feel that Mulgrew's experiences as both actress and family head are much more interesting than the character she played.

Personally, I think she did "give her best," even if Action! Janeway was not her cup of tea. However, I never felt she was involved in the character as Brooks was with his. I think the character could have better reflected Mulgrew's personal experiences and interests. I also wish she hadn't smoked: her acting seemed less dynamic because of it.
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Old January 16 2014, 04:31 PM   #17
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

A little off-topic, but I've always felt it would have been better, conceptually, if Janeway had started the series as Voyager's first officer and the Captain had been killed in the first episode. Could have made some of the inter-crew conflicts more vibrant. Of course, the whole inter-crew conflict concept was abandoned pretty early.
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Old January 16 2014, 06:27 PM   #18
Queen Arachnia
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

E-DUB wrote: View Post
A little off-topic, but I've always felt it would have been better, conceptually, if Janeway had started the series as Voyager's first officer and the Captain had been killed in the first episode. Could have made some of the inter-crew conflicts more vibrant. Of course, the whole inter-crew conflict concept was abandoned pretty early.
I have heard of a lot of people wanting that, but I never wanted that personally. I prefer Janeway as just the captain...always!

Like I said before though, I am biased...
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Old January 16 2014, 07:09 PM   #19
hux
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
But I personally don't think that was the the crutch of her character. I think it was the unimaginable circumstances.
So if Picard and the Enterprise crew had been sent to the Delta quadrant, you believe they would have reacted the same way?...i honestly don't...i think their obvious experience would have been more noticeable

When i think of "Q Who" and the way Picard admits they are out of their depth dealing with the Borg and they are very scared and he almost tearfully begs Q to help them escape.....i try and picture Janeway doing that and i just can't...there's just something about her....that unbending, arrogant superiority....i dunno...she'd probably take it personally and tell Q to "go to hell"

Then again, when i think of "Allegiance"....the way the Enterprise crew begin to question Picards behaviour and the sense that they will back Riker if the time comes....i don't see that being possible with the Voyager crew and Chakotay......the fact that he is Marquis and presumably a lot of the crew don't fully trust him basically means that Janeway has no real anchor who can genuinely talk her down....perhaps that only further exacerbated her isolation and increased her tendency for unilateral leadership (maybe it was a mistake not to have Tuvok as first officer)

Lance wrote: View Post
that Janeway was bipolar.
As someone who works in mental health, i think a "personality disorder" would be a better diagnosis
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Old January 16 2014, 07:13 PM   #20
Lance
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

^ You know what the internet is like. Chances are that the sort of people who use the term 'bipolar' to so casually describe a fictional television character are doing it wrong. Kind of like how there are people who keep misappropriating the word "Schizophrenia" to mean something that it actually really ISN'T in real life.
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Old January 21 2014, 02:43 PM   #21
Gov Karnstein
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

Lance wrote: View Post
It's a reasonably popular fan theory. That she was a great science officer, but one who just got promoted too quickly, and possibly outside of her comfort zone. By Admiral Paris maybe? She seems to have been his "teacher's pet".

So this thinking goes: if we accept this idea that USS Voyager was Janeway's first command, and that the Maquis mission as her first major assignment as a Captain, then we can justify her helter skelter characterization over the course of the series as being her kind of learning command responsibility as she goes along... which accounts for the occasions when she gets it wrong, or allows her "book learning" (eg. a quasi-religious attachment to rules and regulations over common sense) to over-rule the more immediate alternative options that might be available to her.

At other times, she slips, and gets a little... unhinged? Unsure? Loses her confidence. Whatever we want to call it. I don't think it helps that she doesn't have the safety net that other first-time Captain's have, of being able to get advice from Starfleet Command. She's all alone out there in the wasteland.

Whichever way, I don't see it as a bad thing. I think it enrichens the character, makes her more vulnerable, relatable and "real".
It's a theory that I can easily see. Voyager is a very small ship for the exalted rank of full captain. I could see Janeway, with her background, as an officer being fast tracked to the admiralty. Voyager was a place to give her some ship time and a mission which was perhaps relatively easy. It would have made a great contrast with Chakotay, someone who'd commanded ships for real for some time at odds with a captain who was a rear echelon paper pusher. I guess they backed away from that or didn't see it that way, but it would have been a great conflict generator.
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Old January 30 2014, 07:20 PM   #22
F. King Daniel
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

hux wrote:
Lance wrote: View Post
that Janeway was bipolar.
As someone who works in mental health, i think a "personality disorder" would be a better diagnosis
Considering her adventures included stranding her crew a lifetime from home in order to (very temporarily) help the Ocampa, being transformed into a warp 10 salamander, having to single-handedly save the ship from supersized viruses and being Borgified, I think a little psychological scarring is to be expected.
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Old January 31 2014, 07:03 AM   #23
AllStarEntprise
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

At least she didn't sleep with Chakotay.
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Old January 31 2014, 11:31 PM   #24
dub
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

E-DUB wrote: View Post
A little off-topic, but I've always felt it would have been better, conceptually, if Janeway had started the series as Voyager's first officer and the Captain had been killed in the first episode. Could have made some of the inter-crew conflicts more vibrant. Of course, the whole inter-crew conflict concept was abandoned pretty early.
I was getting ready to type just that until I read your comment! Even better would have been to have the captain in some kind of coma instead of being killed while Commander Janeway took over.

In year 2 or 3 he comes out of his coma and after evaluating the situation decides they should find a planet and settle down instead of continuing on the unrealistic journey to the alpha quadrant (his opinion). The story could go on from there. Maybe the captain is eventually killed and Janeway takes over again and continues on to the AQ while some of the crew stay behind on the planet.
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Old February 1 2014, 12:21 AM   #25
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

That kind of conflict would be interesting, especially if Janeway had spent two years pep rallying everyone to believe in their ability to get home and then BOOM.. the Captain wakes up and says fuck it, we are parking HERE.
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Old February 1 2014, 12:36 AM   #26
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
E-DUB wrote: View Post
A little off-topic, but I've always felt it would have been better, conceptually, if Janeway had started the series as Voyager's first officer and the Captain had been killed in the first episode. Could have made some of the inter-crew conflicts more vibrant. Of course, the whole inter-crew conflict concept was abandoned pretty early.
I have heard of a lot of people wanting that, but I never wanted that personally. I prefer Janeway as just the captain...always!

Like I said before though, I am biased...
But even if she was orignally the first officer she still would have been the Captain after the death of the Captain. From a characterisation point of view it might have worked better, and the orignal CO could still have been a woman.
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Old February 1 2014, 12:38 AM   #27
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

But then we would have almost had a female captain and a female CO and it would have been tragically ripped from us by DEATH and that would have sucked.
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Old February 1 2014, 01:39 AM   #28
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Re: A poor captain (but deliberately so)

Kate did a great job with the material she was given. Janeway was potentially much more interesting than she became, eventually. The supposed novelty of her being the first female captain leading a STAR TREK television series never had any real hype, as far as I was ever concerned. After Princess Leia in STAR WARS, It's all kind of been done, as far as bossy chicks in Sci-Fi calling the shots. And even she's kind of overrated! But you know what? I always believed in Janeway, as a character and I never questioned her casting. I just wish that Berman had gotten a memo, relatively early on saying, "we have an interesting premise with this show - let's really try to push it and take some risks." That Berman kept control of STAR TREK for so long both baffles and disappoints me. It wasn't a "poor" captain in this series. It was poor leadership on the production end. By this time, Berman had lost his "stuff."
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