RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,150
Posts: 5,402,160
Members: 24,749
Currently online: 550
Newest member: Legends

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
By: Michelle on Aug 30

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 26 2014, 09:05 AM   #31
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

Here it is from the man himself:

Probert wrote: View Post
Hey gang... yup, it's me again.

Warp capability was never given to the Galaxy class design. I don't care how screwy the stories got and how little the time/distance details were considered... there are no warp engines in the Enterprise-D saucer. No saucer from the mind of Roddenberry had warp capability and I was not asked to include a system on the 'D'. That's why changing my large window alcoves into "deflectors" is bogus... at best an attempt to clean up shoddy script writing.

And to answer the original question... no, the latch design was totally adequate.

As always...
Andrew-
__________________
* * *
"If you wanted to get a good meeting... just go in and
say 'darker, grittier, sexier' and whatever."
—Glen Larson, 2010
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26 2014, 05:07 PM   #32
Forbin
Admiral
 
Forbin's Avatar
 
Location: I said out, dammit!
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

Well there ya go!
Forbin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26 2014, 05:25 PM   #33
Takeru
Fleet Captain
 
Takeru's Avatar
 
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

Maurice wrote: View Post
What's to phone? Andy Probert has said in interviews those were designed to be windows.
But that's just his opinion, the technical manual said it's a deflector, I put more weight on that. Just because Andrew Probert drew the ship doesn't mean he get's to decide what's what.
Takeru is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 26 2014, 06:30 PM   #34
Keith1701
Rear Admiral
 
Keith1701's Avatar
 
Location: Warner Robins Georgia
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

Doug Otte wrote: View Post
DS9forever wrote: View Post
Too big for what?

The answer to your question is: they weren't on any set. They were never seen internally.
Yes, to big for what?
__________________
Keith1701
Live Long, and Prosper....
"Make It So" -- ENGAGE!!!!
Keith1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26 2014, 08:51 PM   #35
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

Takeru wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
What's to phone? Andy Probert has said in interviews those were designed to be windows.
But that's just his opinion, the technical manual said it's a deflector, I put more weight on that. Just because Andrew Probert drew the ship doesn't mean he get's to decide what's what.
Then do you accept that many of the numbers on the lifeboats are backwards just because they appear so on the blueprints that were sold?
__________________
* * *
"If you wanted to get a good meeting... just go in and
say 'darker, grittier, sexier' and whatever."
—Glen Larson, 2010
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26 2014, 10:10 PM   #36
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

Takeru wrote: View Post
Just because Andrew Probert drew the ship doesn't mean he get's to decide what's what.
The "sole person officially credited with the design for the USS Enterprise-D" doesn't get to decide what's what?

He didn't just drew the ship, he designed every detail about it and influenced the actual construction of the VFX model. In essence he is the creator of the ship and did care about the tiniest details. Seriously, who could or should know better than him?

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 10:21 AM   #37
Takeru
Fleet Captain
 
Takeru's Avatar
 
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
On his own, no, he doesn't get to decide. His intentions are just that, intentions, he designed the shape of the ship, the producers, writers, set designers etc. all had a hand in bringing the ship to life, filling its interiors and deciding what's what.

He didn't just drew the ship, he designed every detail about it and influenced the actual construction of the VFX model. In essence he is the creator of the ship and did care about the tiniest details. Seriously, who could or should know better than him?
It's not about knowing better, it's about the reality of Star Trek as a tv series and a franchise, no one get's to do or decide things in a vacuum. Andrew Probert intended for the saucer rim to be one deck, the show made it two instead, he intended for the saucer not to have warp drive and while it was never directly stated to have it on the show it's already obvious in the pilot, the saucer did not drop out of warp after the separation and made it back to Farpoint on its own in a short time, that would have been impossible without some kind of warp.

If there was no other information I would defer to his intentions but for me licensed material trumps his intentions and the tv show trumps everything.
Takeru is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 11:24 AM   #38
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

A lot changes between the design phase and what we see on TV. The designers are part of the process, but theirs is the first word, not the final - Ten Forward being TNG's case in point. IIRC, DS9's USS Defiant was designed with landing gear and no shuttle bay, but it ended up the other way around. The USS Voyager was designed with two computer cores and two warp cores but the stories themselves made it explicitly clear they had one of each. The new Enterprise was designed to be 366m, but plans changed and the CG model was made, detailed and sets built/locations used for a much larger 700m+ size.

That's not to say designer input, showing us how they originally conceived everything, isn't fascinating and insightful.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 03:36 PM   #39
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

Takeru wrote: View Post
Andrew Probert intended for the saucer rim to be one deck, the show made it two instead.
...but in the inevitable process doubled the size of the Enterprise-D.
So when they made the small VFX model to accomodate Ten Forward, did the model makers accordingly reduce the size of the conference lounge windows, the shuttlebay doors and the docking ports?!?

Because if they didn't (and I'm not aware they did) the producers created a contradiction.
So it's not just Andrew Probert's intention standing against size and location of Ten Forward, but the conference lounge and other locations whose sizes had been well established.

Takeru wrote: View Post
He intended for the saucer not to have warp drive and while it was never directly stated to have it on the show it's already obvious in the pilot, the saucer did not drop out of warp after the separation and made it back to Farpoint on its own in a short time, that would have been impossible without some kind of warp.
I'm not aware that the episode did provide enough information to justify this conclusion. The separation could have taken place already in the Farpoint system. Always looked to me as if Picard wanted to deliver the saucer to safety first and then turned back to stop Q.

Takeru wrote: View Post
If there was no other information I would defer to his intentions but for me licensed material trumps his intentions and the tv show trumps everything.
I definitely can see both sides of the argument, i.e. creator's intent vs. what actually ended up on screen (apparently the basic reference for anyone to participate in treknological discussions, especially for those that do not have the behind-the-scenes information some of us do have).

But because Maurice observed that we never saw this "saucer deflector" in use or indicated on screen, the final TV Show doesn't trump anything here.

So then, licensed material trumps the intentions of the original creator?

Ain't that just great? Bad research and/or arrogance ("I know better") gets rewarded at the expense of the original designer.
Sounds to me like an attitude that's not compatible with the spirit of Star Trek and/or TNG. YMMV.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 04:26 PM   #40
Gotham Central
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Chicago, IL
View Gotham Central's Twitter Profile
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

The extreme slope and curves of the Enterprise D was always problematic. The sets were never able to fully depict the shape of the ship and in fact often contradicted the model.

For instance:

1) Picard's Ready Room has that single vertical window that he occasionally stares out of. However the model is all curves. There is no flat section on the bridge module.

2) The shuttle bays in the neck clearly have sloped walls yet the standing set had doors that rose straight up. (I never understood why they did that anyway since all they needed to do was give the wall with the door a slight slope).

3) The windows on the crew quarters were never big enough for the rooms. They should have gone from floor to ceiling and been at a sharper angle (or been on the ceiling).
__________________
Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia

Green Day
Gotham Central is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 10:56 PM   #41
Marc
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: An Aussie in Canukistan
Send a message via ICQ to Marc
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

jimbotron wrote: View Post
There's a lot about Probert's design and original 6-footer that never got utilized in the show. His idea for the saucer edge, the arboretum ceiling, some of the phaser strips, the captain's yacht, and the main shuttlebay*. What was the point of adding the shuttlebay to the design if they only used the ones on the neck? Then there are things that you can't find on the Enterprise model. So the neck has two shuttlebays - what about the cargo bays? Where are they?

*I think the main bay was used twice during the show- Cause and Effect and BOBW Part 2. The interior layout is never seen or known.
Probably came down to budgetary constraints. the Main shuttle bay would have required a huge set which for the amount of use wouldn't have been cost effective.

Add extra smaller shuttlebays to model, build a smaller set (or being able to redress one and money saved.
__________________
Gentlemen you can't fight in here - this is the war room.

Pres. Merkin P. Muffly
Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 11:02 PM   #42
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

It really makes you think - why put such a thing on the ship if they could never hope to realize it?
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 11:09 PM   #43
Marc
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: An Aussie in Canukistan
Send a message via ICQ to Marc
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It really makes you think - why put such a thing on the ship if they could never hope to realize it?
Sometimes you get luck, other times you have to find away.

The story goes the scenes set in Engineering in Encounter At Farpoint were written to ensure the set got built as Roddenberry had a concern if it wasn't built at the start it would never be.
__________________
Gentlemen you can't fight in here - this is the war room.

Pres. Merkin P. Muffly
Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27 2014, 11:21 PM   #44
Robert Comsol
Commodore
 
Robert Comsol's Avatar
 
Location: USS Berlin
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
It really makes you think - why put such a thing on the ship if they could never hope to realize it?
In a certain manner of speaking, Ed Miarecki "realized" a model of the main shuttlebay for "Cause and Effect": http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Main_shuttlebay

The shuttlebays on the VFX model had different sizes. I think part of the strategy may have been that studio stage-wise they knew they were going to have to start with a small shuttlebay but hoped that eventually they would be able to explore the bigger ones, too.

Bob
__________________
"The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth" Jean-Luc Picard
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Albert Einstein
Robert Comsol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 30 2014, 11:06 PM   #45
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
Re: Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

Oh, they could easily have shown the main shuttlebay had there been any will to do so. That's what matte paintings are for.
__________________
* * *
"If you wanted to get a good meeting... just go in and
say 'darker, grittier, sexier' and whatever."
—Glen Larson, 2010
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:48 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.