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Old January 22 2014, 10:17 PM   #1
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign


March 22 is Shatner's birthday, but I'm curious if anyone knows where they got 2228 from? This sign was erected in 1985, and the only source I can find for Kirk's birthday prior to this is the (unlicenced) USS Enterprise Officer's Manual from 1980, which gives it as March 26, 2229.

And why on Earth did Mike Okuda and friends ignore such a neat thing when the 1993 Star Trek Chronology gave Kirk's birth year as 2233? Seems like a wasted opportunity.
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Old January 22 2014, 11:19 PM   #2
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Re: Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign

None of the sources are canon, so technically they're all wrong.
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Old January 22 2014, 11:19 PM   #3
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign

The Making of Star Trek, written in 1967, stated "He appears to be about 34 years old and was born in a small town in the State of Iowa."

Assuming that the time of writing corresponded to TOS events in the 23rd Century, Kirk was 34 years old in 2267 and the Chronology birth year looks correct.

But that still doesn't answer where the 2228 birth year originated from.

Bob

P.S. We'd have to wait until 2228 to see who's wrong.
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Old January 22 2014, 11:26 PM   #4
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign

But 2267 for "The Deadly Years" wasn't established until '93 (by simply adding 300 years onto the airdate). TOS itself was deliberately very vague on the current Earth year.
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Old January 23 2014, 01:05 AM   #5
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Re: Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign

Actually all Trek chronologies are based around Data's statement in "the Neutral Zone" that the year was 2364. Using that and that TNG was launched with the intention that it took place 75-80 years after Kirk's 5-year mission is where we get fairly firm dates for TOS

(Although under REALLY close scrutiny of dialogue, I deduced that Kirk's birth was actually in the first half of 2234.)
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Old January 23 2014, 03:45 PM   #6
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign

mythme wrote: View Post
TNG was launched with the intention that it took place 75-80 years after Kirk's 5-year mission is where we get fairly firm dates for TOS.
If that were the case, I'd be more than happy but IIRC the original TNG statement was rather vague, saying "78 years after the times of Kirk and Spock".

Wasn't there some quasi-official settling for the year in which TMP took place?

mythme wrote: View Post
Although under REALLY close scrutiny of dialogue, I deduced that Kirk's birth was actually in the first half of 2234.
Sounds interesting, can you please elaborate?

Bob
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Old January 23 2014, 09:31 PM   #7
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Re: Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign

i'll have to sift through my notes on the chronology I wrote. Give me a bit to compile my findings...


Ok actually its quite easy to deduce. Trials and Tribble...ations (2373) firmly says that the Trouble with Tribbles occurred 105 years (and 5 weeks) earlier thus 2268.

Two episodes before that was the Deadly Years (I am using production order, not airdate order). There Kirk says that he is 34 years old. Thus 2234.

There's other minutiae (the arrival of Yonada, the span of the Paradise Syndrome, Charlie X occurring on Thanksgiving, the Helen Noel Xmas party, etc) I could get into to pinpoint a more accurate time within but that's a lot to go through.
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Old January 23 2014, 09:43 PM   #8
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Re: Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign

mythme wrote: View Post
Actually all Trek chronologies are based around Data's statement in "the Neutral Zone" that the year was 2364. Using that and that TNG was launched with the intention that it took place 75-80 years after Kirk's 5-year mission is where we get fairly firm dates for TOS

(Although under REALLY close scrutiny of dialogue, I deduced that Kirk's birth was actually in the first half of 2234.)
I think the intent was that the first year of TNG takes place 78 years after the events of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home. Plus we have the "78 Years Later" at the bottom of the screen as the TNG portion of Star Trek: Generations starts. The Original Series actually takes place nearly a century prior to TNG.
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Old January 23 2014, 10:41 PM   #9
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign

Assuming that TOS events in GEN take place in 2293, the Enterprise-B is the first starship of that name in "30 years" without Captain Kirk.

This would suggest that he assumed command of the TOS Enterprise in 2263 (Stardate 1277.1 ?).
Around Stardate 3579.4 ("The Deadly Years") Kirk claims he is 34. Assuming 1,000 stardate digits equal one year would put events in that episode somewhere in or around 2265, minus 34 = 2231.

Events in "Space Seed" (Stardate 3143.3) would have taken place in or around the same year, plus 15 years = 2280.

But according to TWOK

KIRK: 2283.
McCOY: Yeah well it takes this stuff a while to ferment. Here now, gimme. ...Now you open this one.

Another approach could be to assume the 5-year-mission started at Stardate 1277.1 and 8 years later it's Stardate 7412.6 (TMP). One year would equal 767 stardate digits.

This would put "Space Seed" in or around early 2266 (DY in 2266), 15 years later would still only be 2281.

Looks like the later birthdate could help explain some things a little better, IMHO.

Bob
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Old January 23 2014, 10:57 PM   #10
mythme
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Re: Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign

If you use stardates, especially in regard to TOS, you're bound to run into trouble
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Old January 24 2014, 12:51 PM   #11
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's birth year/Riverside sign

I recently presented an approximation of how to decipher TOS (Era) stardates in this thread.

But regardless, assuming that with "Where No Man Has Gone Before" (or the tombstone date) the 5-year-mission started, it was 5 years plus 2.8 years (according to Gene Roddenberry's TMP novelization) by the time of TMP.

Those events in "Space Seed" happened 15 years prior to TWOK and have to be "somewhere" within the aforementioned timeframe.

Assuming that the Romulan ale bottling date ("2283") was a translation for humans consuming this stuff (apparently to give them an idea how long it had fermented) events in TWOK must have taken place sometime after 2283, therefore it appears better to rather have a late than early birthdate of James T. Kirk in the 23rd Century.

Bob
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