RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,592
Posts: 5,424,300
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 547
Newest member: David Ellerman

TrekToday headlines

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 23 2014, 09:40 PM   #301
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Like in most situations involving non-members or primitive societies, the Federation decided what the best course of action for a society was without their input.
Which in this case is the sort of imperialistic bulls@#t the Prime Directive was supposed to put a stop to.
Trek seems to treat the PD as a suggestion more than a hard and fast rule. We hear a lot about it's the highest law a starship Captain must obey, but right and left it gets violated and tossed in the trash for the sake of the story.
Until Star Trek Into Darkness when Kirk actually gets demoted for violating it.
Hartzilla2007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2014, 09:44 PM   #302
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Like in most situations involving non-members or primitive societies, the Federation decided what the best course of action for a society was without their input.
Which in this case is the sort of imperialistic bulls@#t the Prime Directive was supposed to put a stop to.
Problem is, that once more than one party is involved the Prime Directive isn't worth the paper its written on. (See: "A Private Little War")
Except that by doing that the Klingons were violating their peace treaty with the Federation.
Hartzilla2007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2014, 09:52 PM   #303
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Except that by doing that the Klingons were violating their peace treaty with the Federation.
Which is meaningless to the people of Neural.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2014, 10:10 PM   #304
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Except that by doing that the Klingons were violating their peace treaty with the Federation.
Which is meaningless to the people of Neural.
Yes, but only because the Federation forgot that the treaty was imposed by all powerful aliens who could just smite the Klingons.

Also that the Klingons were untrustworthy assholes so the federation should have included orbital death cannons as part of the treaty.

I also I wonder if the Klingons forgot what happened the last time they picked on a supposed lesser race or the fact that there are a lot of godlike being in the TOS universe before being assholes.
Hartzilla2007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2014, 10:16 PM   #305
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Except that by doing that the Klingons were violating their peace treaty with the Federation.
Which is meaningless to the people of Neural.
Yes, but only because the Federation forgot that the treaty was imposed by all powerful aliens who could just smite the Klingons.

Also that the Klingons were untrustworthy assholes so the federation should have included orbital death cannons as part of the treaty.
Seems like raining death from above on the people of Neural would be a major Prime Directive no-no.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2014, 10:34 PM   #306
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Except that by doing that the Klingons were violating their peace treaty with the Federation.
Which is meaningless to the people of Neural.
Yes, but only because the Federation forgot that the treaty was imposed by all powerful aliens who could just smite the Klingons.

Also that the Klingons were untrustworthy assholes so the federation should have included orbital death cannons as part of the treaty.

I also I wonder if the Klingons forgot what happened the last time they picked on a supposed lesser race or the fact that there are a lot of godlike being in the TOS universe before being assholes.

your comments are fascinating. On one hand, you rant about imperialistic foreign policies and the violations of the rights of minorities, then when it comes to dealing with certain Alpha Quadrant powers, you're gung-ho about gunboat diplomacy and orbital death cannons!
__________________
"why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?"
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2014, 10:41 PM   #307
AgentCoop
Fleet Captain
 
AgentCoop's Avatar
 
Location: Chillin' in the Black Lodge since June 10th, 1991
View AgentCoop's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

^Oh, come now. The problem has never existed that couldn't be solved with orbital death cannons!
AgentCoop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2014, 11:05 PM   #308
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Seems like raining death from above on the people of Neural would be a major Prime Directive no-no.
Actually they would be pointed out into space at the Klingons

sonak wrote: View Post
then when it comes to dealing with certain Alpha Quadrant powers, you're gung-ho about gunboat diplomacy and orbital death cannons!
Only the ones that diplomacy doesn't seem to work with unless they blow up their own moon and even then some of them think a suicidal charge is preferable to negotiating peace to the point that they kill their leader and conspire with Federation citizens to not have to work with Federation citizens.

Also with the Cardassians they didn't need orbital death cannons just observation outposts to monitor the DMZ like the had with the Romulans to keep an eye on them since after trying to screw the federation over about three times they should probably stop trusting them Cardassians so much.
Hartzilla2007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2014, 11:14 PM   #309
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Seems like raining death from above on the people of Neural would be a major Prime Directive no-no.
Actually they would be pointed out into space at the Klingons
Usually those are referred to as Orbital Defense Platforms.

I would imagine the Klingons would figure a way around those pretty quick.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2014, 11:23 PM   #310
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Usually those are referred to as Orbital Defense Platforms.
True but I doubt those actually exist in the Star Trek universe as Earth would probably have some of those instead of just those three ships things the Borg blow up without even stopping on their way to Earth.

I would imagine the Klingons would figure a way around those pretty quick.
I don't know thanks to the 24th century the Klingons don't exactly come off as tech geniuses they're more likely to just shoot at them thus likely attract the nearest Federation starship.

Seriously their idea of treating the loss of an eye is bolting an eyepatch to your head.
Hartzilla2007 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 23 2014, 11:34 PM   #311
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: Covington, Ky.
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Seriously their idea of treating the loss of an eye is bolting an eyepatch to your head.
For a warrior, I imagine it's more of a trophy and a signal not to fuck with them than a statement on Klingon medical technology.
__________________
"I tell you what you all need, you need to take a thirteenth step, down off your high horse." - Hank Hill, King of the Hill
BillJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 24 2014, 01:18 AM   #312
urbandefault
Captain
 
urbandefault's Avatar
 
Location: Chicken pot, chicken pot, chicken pot pie!
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post

Seriously their idea of treating the loss of an eye is bolting an eyepatch to your head.
For a warrior, I imagine it's more of a trophy and a signal not to fuck with them than a statement on Klingon medical technology.
And Martok was so bad he didn't need no damn patch.
urbandefault is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24 2014, 01:29 PM   #313
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Until Star Trek Into Darkness when Kirk actually gets demoted for violating it.
That was in one of the many alternate universes, and not germane to a discussion involving the prime.




T'Girl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 24 2014, 03:29 PM   #314
DonIago
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Burlington, VT, USA
View DonIago's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to DonIago Send a message via AIM to DonIago Send a message via Yahoo to DonIago
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Are you suggesting that if a similar set of circumstances occurred in the Primeverse there would be a different outcome?

Interesting notion. Off the top of my head I don't see why things would have gone differently just by virtue of being in a different timeline, but it's possible that Starfleet regulations regarding the PD are different between the two timelines as well, or that Pike or his superiors would be different enough people to rule differently regarding Kirk.
__________________
--DonIago
It was the best of Trek, it was the worst of Trek...
"If I lean over, I leave myself open to wedgies, wet willies, or even the dreaded Rear Admiral!"
DonIago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 24 2014, 03:32 PM   #315
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

DonIago wrote: View Post
Are you suggesting that if a similar set of circumstances occurred in the Primeverse there would be a different outcome?

Interesting notion. Off the top of my head I don't see why things would have gone differently just by virtue of being in a different timeline, but it's possible that Starfleet regulations regarding the PD are different between the two timelines as well, or that Pike or his superiors would be different enough people to rule differently regarding Kirk.

I thought that whole bit about the PD in "Into Darkness" was a not-so-subtle slap at the whole "let them die!" nature of the TNG-era Prime Directive.


Maybe I'm reading too much into it, though.
__________________
"why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?"
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.