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Old January 23 2014, 03:16 AM   #451
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

The Fantastic Four have gotten a raw deal in the movies. One unreleased tv movie quality film, and two below average movies done by that guy that did Barbershop who was clearly the wrong type of director for these type of movies. A movie Dr Doom was that completely butchered by the writing, nothing but a Green Goblin knockoff, when he is considered one of the best villains in Marvel comics.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:22 AM   #452
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

Tosk wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
We've had black actors playing white comic book characters since Eartha Kitt was Catwoman back in 1967-8.
Yeah, and she was the worst one.
She was purrrrfect.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:26 AM   #453
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

All question of race aside, and I'm perfectly happy with Michael B. Jordan in theory (never seen him in anything), making Sue and Johnny not siblings pretty much is a dealbreaker. Make Johnny adopted if you have to.

Christopher wrote:
So insisting that these characters are only allowed to be white is not being true to the creator's intent -- it's actively betraying their intent.
You're right overall in your post, but this is a bit laying it on. Using Daredevil as an example of somebody "nominally" white is odd too, since disabilities aren't exactly discriminating.
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Old January 23 2014, 04:01 AM   #454
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

I wouldn't care if they made Johnny and Sue black, or all four of them for that matter---I dare them to do it! But to cast Sue and Johnny as people of different color and of the wrong relative ages and then come up with an adoption angle to explain it just seems needlessly convoluted.
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Old January 23 2014, 04:26 AM   #455
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

Yeah, that's my complaint. If anything I'm not criticizing them for making Johnny Storm black, I'm criticizing them for making Susan Storm white. Having part of a pair and not the other part a different race raises the specter of tokenism. They're afraid to take the risk of not trying to appeal to minorities while also being afraid to be seen to have too many minorities. I'm hoping they also weren't afraid to have an interracial couple and that influenced their decision.
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Old January 23 2014, 04:53 AM   #456
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

JD wrote: View Post
I haven't read F4 yet, so could someone explain to me why Johnny has to be white, other than the fact that it's how it was in the comics? I don't really see how changing character's race automatically means the movie is going to be a train wreck, unless it goes against an important aspect of the character.
As for having for the different races for the actors/tresses being looked at for Johnny and Sue, I don't see why one of them wouldn't be adopted. Do they really need to be siblings? Couldn't they just be really close platonic friends, or something along those lines?
Close platonic friends with the same last name?
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Old January 23 2014, 04:58 AM   #457
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I wouldn't care if they made Johnny and Sue black, or all four of them for that matter---I dare them to do it! But to cast Sue and Johnny as people of different color and of the wrong relative ages and then come up with an adoption angle to explain it just seems needlessly convoluted.
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Yeah, that's my complaint. If anything I'm not criticizing them for making Johnny Storm black, I'm criticizing them for making Susan Storm white. Having part of a pair and not the other part a different race raises the specter of tokenism. They're afraid to take the risk of not trying to appeal to minorities while also being afraid to be seen to have too many minorities. I'm hoping they also weren't afraid to have an interracial couple and that influenced their decision.
Word.

The idea of an Invisible Woman is more apropos with respect to a black woman, anyway.

It's also worth pointing out that the first theatrical film had an interracial couple, in Ben and Alicia.
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Old January 23 2014, 05:07 AM   #458
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
No. They have to be brother and sister. Period. The family angle is what made FF unique among Marvel super-teams in the first place.
I can see that then. I really don't know much about the FF compared to the Avengers characters or X-Men, so my questions were asked out of honest curiosity.
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Old January 23 2014, 09:31 AM   #459
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I wouldn't care if they made Johnny and Sue black, or all four of them for that matter---I dare them to do it! But to cast Sue and Johnny as people of different color and of the wrong relative ages and then come up with an adoption angle to explain it just seems needlessly convoluted.
I'm on board for that. My personal priority is keeping the relationships intact, so if Johnny is black I would prefer Sue to be too. If switching all four works better, I say go for it.
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Old January 23 2014, 10:54 AM   #460
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Having part of a pair and not the other part a different race raises the specter of tokenism.
You took the post right out of my fingers; I was beginning to wonder if anyone even knew that word anymore. That's exactly what this re-racing of characters is. I'm surprised people like Sam Jackson put up with it. What they need to do is actually create Black characters (and other minorities, and so on). Diversity is not served by putting a White character in blackface-- that raises the specter of Ted Danson. That, plus the ideas that Sue and Johnny don't have to be related and that it doesn't matter how old Reed is and so forth demonstrates a lack of respect for the source material. This is what happened to the first movie. They watered down Reed's character, they totally re-imagined Doom, and it was a bad movie. If a concept is worth making a movie about, they should actually use that concept.
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Old January 23 2014, 12:25 PM   #461
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Having part of a pair and not the other part a different race raises the specter of tokenism.
You took the post right out of my fingers; I was beginning to wonder if anyone even knew that word anymore. That's exactly what this re-racing of characters is. I'm surprised people like Sam Jackson put up with it.
Well, the artist/writer of the Ultimate universe thought it would be cool if Nick Fury looked like Sam Jackson...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Nick_Fury
When Nick Fury first made his appearance in the Ultimate Universe, he had a vastly different design, resembling more the original mainstream version with notable differences, featuring a full head of close-cropped hair, a clean-shaven, younger appearance (particularly as depicted in Ultimate Marvel Team-Up) and less visible scarring around his eye-patch, not to mention lacking a specific resemblance to any actor. He wore seemingly normal clothing which integrated outlandishly high-tech capabilities such as phasing, invisibility, and "para-shoes" that allow him to descend hundreds of feet without the aid of a parachute (shown to be capable of flight in later issues).[2]

When the character resurfaced in 2002 in The Ultimates, he had been redesigned to look like actor Samuel L. Jackson. Jackson did not originally give his consent for Marvel Comics to use his likeness in their redesign of the Fury character for The Ultimates,[3] and first appeared with this revised look in The Ultimates #1, as drawn by Bryan Hitch. The similarity is even noted within the comic itself, in a scene in which the Ultimates discuss who they think should play each of them in a hypothetical movie about the team. Fury's answer for himself is "Mr. Samuel L. Jackson, of course, no discussion." It was only after seeing the redesigned Nick Fury in the first issue of The Ultimates that Samuel L. Jackson learned of the use of his likeness and contacted Marvel in order to secure the role of Nick Fury in any future movies which will feature the character.
Though in the main universe they introduced the original Nick Fury's biracial, out-of-wedlock, son of him who is bald and black and wears an eyepatch as a reaction to the popularity of the Sam Jackson/Ultimate version...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Fury,_Jr.
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Old January 23 2014, 12:50 PM   #462
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

I really don't care what colour any of the Four are, but I agree that the Storms should be siblings. Adapted siblings can work too, I suppose - why do we need to adhere to the traditional concept of the homogenous nuclear family?

However, it occurs to me that it would almost be a cliché to make the wise-ass, thrill-seeking Johnny Storm black. We see quite a lot of black characters like that onscreen. Mightn't it be a more interesting and unusual bit of colour-blind casting to cast a black man as the intellectual scientist Reed Richards?

Of course, if Jordan is the man who's tested best for Johnny, then let them go with him.
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Old January 23 2014, 02:58 PM   #463
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

Tosk wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I wouldn't care if they made Johnny and Sue black, or all four of them for that matter---I dare them to do it! But to cast Sue and Johnny as people of different color and of the wrong relative ages and then come up with an adoption angle to explain it just seems needlessly convoluted.
I'm on board for that. My personal priority is keeping the relationships intact, so if Johnny is black I would prefer Sue to be too. If switching all four works better, I say go for it.
Yes, we saw how well that worked for The Honeymooners.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:04 PM   #464
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

^So you think the Honeymooners failed because of the colour of the cast as oppose to the quality of the script, direction etc?

Seriously? A film based on a 50 year old tv show that hardly anyone going to the cinemas now has actually seen?
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Old January 23 2014, 04:14 PM   #465
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

No, I think it failed because Honeymooner fans know Ralph (et al) as associated with Jackie Gleason (et al). A good script would have helped, but....

When stunt casting (or PC casting) is done just because it is PC or a big name, it usually doesn't work. An exception is The Wiz. There are probably more. In 20 years, should they remake Machete with Justin Beiber ?
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