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Old January 22 2014, 04:23 PM   #436
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Photoman15 wrote: View Post
I'll watch this movie with a black Johnny Storm (Sue's brother) when they cast the next biopic about Malcolm X with a white guy playing him.
This is not prejudice, it's that I grew up with white Storm family and a black Malcolm X. Why all this. PC shit?
I had no idea Johnny Storm was a real person.
I wasn't aware historical bio pics were accurate.
They usually try to get the broad strokes correct.

However, if it helps, the alternative response I had considered was: "Would you watch it once they cast Genghis Khan as a white person?"
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Old January 22 2014, 05:23 PM   #437
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

It's ridiculous to compare the casting of fictional characters to the casting of real characters. If it's legitimate to cast the 6'3" Hugh Jackman as the 5'3" Wolverine, or to cast Michael Keaton as Batman, who's supposedly the most perfect physical specimen on Earth, or to recast Kirk, McCoy, and Scotty with actors who have different eye colors than their predecessors, then clearly fictional characters' physical attributes are subject to adjustment.

These comics characters created in the '40s and '60s aren't all white because there was some intrinsic story or character reason for it; they were white because society at the time was racist and not ready to accept more diversity. But the people who created these characters, people like Joe Simon and Jack Kirby and Stan Lee and Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster and Bill Finger, were all the children of Jewish immigrants. They all grew up personally experiencing bigotry toward their religion and nationalities, and the last thing they would've wanted was to endorse monolithic whiteness. That's why so many of their characters are implicitly coded as minorities despite having to be nominally portrayed as white -- Superman is an alien immigrant, the X-Men are mutants, the Hulk and the Thing are feared for their unusual appearance, Daredevil is blind, etc. And that's why these creators and their successors later pushed the envelope and added racially diverse characters to their comics as soon as social attitudes changed enough that they could get away with it, characters like Black Panther and the Falcon and Luke Cage and John Stewart.

So if they had created characters like the Fantastic Four or the X-Men a generation later, when racism didn't impose such limitations on creators, I'm sure they would've made them ethnically diverse to begin with. Because every one of them had personal experience with being the victim of discrimination and hate, and they knew how wrong it was. So insisting that these characters are only allowed to be white is not being true to the creator's intent -- it's actively betraying their intent.

It's also bizarrely behind the times. We've had black actors playing white comic book characters since Eartha Kitt was Catwoman back in 1967-8.
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Old January 22 2014, 05:31 PM   #438
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

I really don't care. Growing up, I wasn't a fan of Genghis Khan. But I was of Johnny Storm and the Fantastic Four. As for the Malcolm X, I should have made that MLK Jr. Fan of MLK Jr, not so much MX.
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Old January 22 2014, 06:01 PM   #439
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

But were you a fan of the color of Johnny's skin? Or were you a fan of his personality and powers and attitude? If it's the latter, then the ethnicity of the actor cast in the role should be completely irrelevant.

Have you refused to watch Smallville and Man of Steel and the Fox X-Men movies and the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe because they've changed the ethnicity of a few characters? Really, this has happened many times already, and the world hasn't ended and the movies haven't failed.
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Old January 22 2014, 07:04 PM   #440
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I think it's likely that they'll drop the sibling angle altogether, FWIW.
Which gets back to the point: Generic Super Hero team template #4....even less Fantastic Four than it was before the other changes that are apparent.
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Old January 22 2014, 07:52 PM   #441
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

Christopher wrote: View Post
We've had black actors playing white comic book characters since Eartha Kitt was Catwoman back in 1967-8.
Yeah, and she was the worst one.
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Old January 22 2014, 08:58 PM   #442
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

TemporalFlux wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Photoman15 wrote: View Post
I'll watch this movie with a black Johnny Storm (Sue's brother) when they cast the next biopic about Malcolm X with a white guy playing him.
This is not prejudice, it's that I grew up with white Storm family and a black Malcolm X. Why all this. PC shit?
I had no idea Johnny Storm was a real person.
I wasn't aware historical bio pics were accurate.
They usually are with respect to race when the historical figure's race is integral to what makes the person's life and achievements noteworthy.

As others have pointed out, the race of the FF (as well as most other fictional characters for the most part) had no bearing whatsoever on who the characters were.
Tosk wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
We've had black actors playing white comic book characters since Eartha Kitt was Catwoman back in 1967-8.
Yeah, and she was the worst one.
So, you thought Kitt wasn't any good in the role because she was black?
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Old January 22 2014, 09:32 PM   #443
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I think it's likely that they'll drop the sibling angle altogether, FWIW.
Which gets back to the point: Generic Super Hero team template #4....even less Fantastic Four than it was before the other changes that are apparent.
Yeah. More and more I'm getting the impression that Josh Trank will be giving us Josh Trank's Fantastic Four rather than Stan and Jack's Fantastic Four.

I feel as if this train is riding down the same track as "The Last Airbender" and is heading for the same wreck.
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Old January 22 2014, 09:45 PM   #444
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

They should cast the best actor for Johnny and the best actor for Sue. After that, let the pieces fall where they will as regards their backstory. One of them (or both) can be adopted Diff'rent Strokes style, or they can be cousins. Not really a huge issue.

And Idris Elba was pretty awesome as Heimdall, IMO.
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Old January 22 2014, 09:55 PM   #445
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

Instead of making Johnny black, I'm surprised they didn't cast a black actor to play Ben Grimm. The big black guy is a common trope everywhere these days.
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Old January 22 2014, 10:25 PM   #446
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

There is no amount of acting that will overcome 50 years of a major character being presented as white. It doesn't matter if the character is real or imagined; you have a 50 year history of people expecting a certain product (including the recent two films that had a white Johnny Storm). You can't pull a switch out and expect it to retain the same audience.

New Coke, anyone?

And Heimdall? Let's all take a vote on even how many comics fans knew who Heimdall was. Unless you were a big reader of Thor, you likely didn't know. Johnny Storm? He's all over the place.

My vote? I will not pay a dime for this garbage if Michael B. Jordan is Johnny Storm. His casting will be a signal flare of what a wreck it's going to be. The only reason I'm keeping up with the news is to see if this casting with Jordan falls through.
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Old January 23 2014, 12:38 AM   #447
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
I think it's likely that they'll drop the sibling angle altogether, FWIW.
Which gets back to the point: Generic Super Hero team template #4....even less Fantastic Four than it was before the other changes that are apparent.
Yeah. More and more I'm getting the impression that Josh Trank will be giving us Josh Trank's Fantastic Four rather than Stan and Jack's Fantastic Four.

I feel as if this train is riding down the same track as "The Last Airbender" and is heading for the same wreck.
Even being charitable, it doesn't seem like it'll be better and more authentic than the first one which it needed at a minimum. The bar has been set higher and there seems to be an indifference in creating the Fantastic Four dynamic.
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Old January 23 2014, 02:29 AM   #448
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

Photoman15 wrote: View Post
I really don't care. Growing up, I wasn't a fan of Genghis Khan. But I was of Johnny Storm and the Fantastic Four. As for the Malcolm X, I should have made that MLK Jr. Fan of MLK Jr, not so much MX.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:02 AM   #449
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

I haven't read F4 yet, so could someone explain to me why Johnny has to be white, other than the fact that it's how it was in the comics? I don't really see how changing character's race automatically means the movie is going to be a train wreck, unless it goes against an important aspect of the character.
As for having for the different races for the actors/tresses being looked at for Johnny and Sue, I don't see why one of them wouldn't be adopted. Do they really need to be siblings? Couldn't they just be really close platonic friends, or something along those lines?
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Old January 23 2014, 03:11 AM   #450
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Re: Fantastic Four reboot-- Casting, Rumors, Pix, ect;

No. They have to be brother and sister. Period. The family angle is what made FF unique among Marvel super-teams in the first place.
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