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Old January 23 2014, 03:00 AM   #181
2takesfrakes
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

............... even so, do you think you could still write a better love story than George Lucas?

[Question directed at Bill]
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Old January 23 2014, 03:02 AM   #182
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

Much of the Lucas universe derives from ancient myth and archetypes more than modern literature such as Dune or sci-fi such as 2001 and Star Trek, though I'm certain that one and fairly sure at least two of those had profound influence on the crafting of the SW universe and the characters.

Lucas was more about Joseph Campbell and the ancient Greek writers than he was Frank Herbert.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:03 AM   #183
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

Maybe so, but there's a lot of DUNE in A NEW HOPE ... "spice," in fact is actually mentioned, by name.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:06 AM   #184
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

Thanks for that Ancient Mariner, I had forgotten about that moment.. and there are probably other little moments that we can deduce a psychic connection between the two in the movies. I'm thinking about how fandom subtexts everything out the wazoo with most things and sees connections and tension and all kinds of stuff between characters that was often not written there in the first place. So why can't we see clearly the bond that Anakin and Padme seemingly do have, as intended by Lucas? Why isn't it a big part of the story? I think if Anakin had been a sympathetic and charismatic bad boy we wouldn't be struggling to see what was (presumably) intended to be evident, it would come naturally as part of the undercurrent of a great romance.

That's the bit that is missing. A great romance
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Old January 23 2014, 03:08 AM   #185
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

One could do worse than being compared to 70s SF.

I lament that the era of 70s filmmaking in general is no longer with us.

For example, there was this guy named George Lucas who put out some pretty good SF in the 70s.

teacake wrote:
Why isn't it a big part of the story?
It isn't?
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Old January 23 2014, 03:10 AM   #186
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

I've always liked the original Logan's Run. Omit some of the painful mid-'70s cheesiness and wildly dated elements and it's a prime example of what seventies sci-fi and fantasy filmmaking got right. A couple of the original Apes sequels were amazing.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:12 AM   #187
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
............... even so, do you think you could still write a better love story than George Lucas?

[Question directed at Bill]
Honestly? I don't know. I do know that no one is breaking down my door to pay me to find out though.

But is it really the writing, or the directing, or the acting, or a combination of all three that make the Anakin/Padme romance so poor?
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Old January 23 2014, 03:13 AM   #188
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

Wasn't George Lucas involved in Willow? There was a nicely handled romance in that one, as I recall ... between Val Kilmer and some chick who looked like a female Michael Jackson.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:15 AM   #189
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
A couple of the original Apes sequels were amazing.
For some reason I'm a Beneath groupie.

2takesfrakes wrote:
There was a nicely handled romance in that one, as I recall ... between Val Kilmer and some chick who looked like a female Michael Jackson.
Madmartigan/Sorsha got repurposed for the SW book Heir to the Empire as the Luke/Mara thing.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:15 AM   #190
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Maybe so, but there's a lot of DUNE in A NEW HOPE ... "spice," in fact is actually mentioned, by name.
A lot? No, a little.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
One could do worse than being compared to 70s SF.

I lament that the era of 70s filmmaking in general is no longer with us.

For example, there was this guy named George Lucas who put out some pretty good SF in the 70s.

teacake wrote:
Why isn't it a big part of the story?
It isn't?
As you said, Star Wars is 70s SF.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:21 AM   #191
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

Supposedly, that big skeleton 3PO passes in the desert was supposed to be a nod to the sandworms, like it was supposed to be a sandworm skeleton.

Except sandworms don't have skeletons...
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Old January 23 2014, 03:21 AM   #192
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Wasn't George Lucas involved in Willow? There was a nicely handled romance in that one, as I recall ... between Val Kilmer and some chick who looked like a female Michael Jackson.
Joanna Whaley looks nothing like Michael Jackson.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:22 AM   #193
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Maybe so, but there's a lot of DUNE in A NEW HOPE ... "spice," in fact is actually mentioned, by name.
You do realize there are plenty of legitimate reasons to criticize Star Wars, and not just the prequels, without having to invent any, right?

teacake wrote: View Post
I think if Anakin had been a sympathetic and charismatic bad boy we wouldn't be struggling to see what was (presumably) intended to be evident, it would come naturally as part of the undercurrent of a great romance.

That's the bit that is missing. A great romance
For the most part I agree. And I know a great deal of the dialogue between Anakin and Padme can be easily dismissed as poorly or clumsily written. However, there are a couple of moments where I think Lucas gets it right. Anakin's reaction to being a father is one of them. The other is a scene that is oft-maligned, but I think really "gets" the whole madly, crazily, stupidly in love banter that a couple can have: The balcony "You are so beautiful" scene in RotS. It's cheesy, corny and absolutely the kind of conversation that can happen when two people are in an all-consuming love. That moment works - but people react poorly to it because it's the kind of sickeningly sweet nonsense people in love can say to one another that makes the rest of us (or at least some of us) simultaneously say, "yuck" and "I wish I was that in love".

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Supposedly, that big skeleton 3PO passes in the desert was supposed to be a nod to the sandworms, like it was supposed to be a sandworm skeleton.
Or a Krayt Dragon.
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Old January 23 2014, 03:25 AM   #194
2takesfrakes
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

BillJ wrote: View Post
2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
............... even so, do you think you could still write a better love story than George Lucas?

[Question directed at Bill]
Honestly? I don't know. I do know that no one is breaking down my door to pay me to find out though.

But is it really the writing, or the directing, or the acting, or a combination of all three that make the Anakin/Padme romance so poor?
Why can't Disney just reboot the prequels? I would be all for that and I'm certain others would be, as well. Just ... do 'em over! I'll go see it ...
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Old January 23 2014, 03:25 AM   #195
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Re: Question to those most disappointed with the SW prequels

I still don't know where all this DUNE stuff is going. Spice? Okay. Maybe. But the word spice and spices' collective value as a traded commodity goes back many centuries here on Earth, so it may have had nothing to do with Frank Herbert. At all.

Remember, Lucas immersed himself in history and mythology and I don't think we can just say that Han dumping a spice shipment meant for Jabba is any proof that DUNE is directly referenced. If it was, fine. Cool. But....where's the evidence, though? And does it matter?
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