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Old January 19 2014, 11:30 PM   #16
Sran
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

  1. Chekov's inability to recognize Ceti Alpha V upon traveling to the planet's system in The Wrath of Khan.
  2. The Enterprise (whether Kirk or Picard's ship) always being the only ship in the vicinity of trouble.
  3. The decision to undertake a project as controversial as Genesis in the relative vicinity of Klingon space. Why not have it developed somewhere besides Regula I?
  4. Valeris' presence on Enterprise at the outset of The Undiscovered Country. Valeris herself said she volunteered for the mission because Kirk didn't have a permanent helmsman. Would it not have been his responsibility (or Spock's) to properly vet someone for the position given the sensitive nature of the mission? I realize Spock vouched for her (and Kirk trusted Spock), but no one should be allowed to merely volunteer for an assignment with the potential to turn quickly into a disaster (precisely what happened).
--Sran
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Old January 20 2014, 12:20 AM   #17
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

Sran wrote: View Post
  1. Valeris' presence on Enterprise at the outset of The Undiscovered Country. Valeris herself said she volunteered for the mission because Kirk didn't have a permanent helmsman. Would it not have been his responsibility (or Spock's) to properly vet someone for the position given the sensitive nature of the mission? I realize Spock vouched for her (and Kirk trusted Spock), but no one should be allowed to merely volunteer for an assignment with the potential to turn quickly into a disaster (precisely what happened).
--Sran
Well, I think we can safely assume that Admiral Brock and his fellow conspirators in Starfleet pulled some strings to get Valeris assigned to the Enterprise for this mission. And she probably wouldn't want to call attention to that fact. Easier just to say she "volunteered."
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Old January 20 2014, 01:11 AM   #18
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Really it depends how seriously you take the episodes and movies. Are they historical documents where everything happened exactly as seen, or are they just stories where only the broad strokes are important? Those in charge definitely see it as the latter.
Not really, as the various productions have gone to great lengths to link to details and references--even minor--to other movies or episodes. Moreover, official publications (timelines, etc.) have tried to write detailed account of the ST universe, trying to make a cohesive world, rather than broad tales that could take place anywhere, or involve anyone.
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Old January 20 2014, 01:14 AM   #19
Sran
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Well, I think we can safely assume that Admiral Brock and his fellow conspirators in Starfleet pulled some strings to get Valeris assigned to the Enterprise for this mission. And she probably wouldn't want to call attention to that fact. Easier just to say she "volunteered."
James Swallow makes such an assertion in Cast No Shadow, saying that Cartwright arranged for her posting. It still seems odd that Kirk would not have known of her being there until he stepped onto the bridge. I understand why it happened that way in terms of the film's production, but it makes no sense in-universe. The commanding officer of any vessel should be kept apprised of any personnel transfers on or off his ship- unless of course Spock had been commanding the Enterprise on missions without Kirk (possible given his own captaincy) and okayed the move himself.

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Old January 20 2014, 01:20 AM   #20
mythme
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Robert D. Robot wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
That episode where Odo worked at the roller rink. I know they were trying to show his search for humanity because everyone wants humanity it is simply the best but I really think they went too far, it's a plot error of character of massive proportions.

Hilarious! Please-- where is this from?
Charlie's Angels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAx0KsTBKyY
You also forgot to mention that in the same episode Henry Starling, while he was cannibalizing Captain Braxton's timeship was undercover in the 70s posing as a rollerskating dandy.
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Old January 20 2014, 01:23 AM   #21
2takesfrakes
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

Uhura's infamous Fan Dance on Nimbus III, on a sand dune, somewhere in the outskirts of Paradise City. Doesn't Kirk's even making this request of her to strip naked and perform this chore violate some kind of STARFLEET Sexual Harassment regulation, or another? THE FINAL FRONTIER smartly avoids showing us that conversation. It's not even in the deleted scenes, so I'm sure it was never even in the script, much less shot.

OH!!! Oh ... and the fact that Sybok's minions weren't singing Guns N' Roses' "Paradise City," as they charged the city gates and took it over. Huge error!!!
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Old January 20 2014, 01:26 AM   #22
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Really it depends how seriously you take the episodes and movies. Are they historical documents where everything happened exactly as seen, or are they just stories where only the broad strokes are important? Those in charge definitely see it as the latter.
Not really, as the various productions have gone to great lengths to link to details and references--even minor--to other movies or episodes. Moreover, official publications (timelines, etc.) have tried to write detailed account of the ST universe, trying to make a cohesive world, rather than broad tales that could take place anywhere, or involve anyone.
The productions and timeline books go to great lengths to make Trek appear as a cohesive universe, but under scrutiny it crumbles. The classic Enterprise warped to the rim of the galaxy and the centre without breaking a sweat - yet Voyager would take 75 years to cross the galaxy. TPTB decided that for the purposes of their show, they're going to ignore those episodes and make warp speed a lot slower. TNG ignores a couple of TOS episodes when they portray Data as the only android known to exist. ST: Enterprise ignores the implication that "Balance of Terror" was the first time a cloaking device had been encountered.

There are countless other examples. If that's not taking a broad strokes approach, I don't know what is.
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Old January 20 2014, 01:29 AM   #23
Pondwater
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

How did Tuvok and the Doctor get to Arizona so quickly in "Future's End"?
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Old January 20 2014, 01:42 AM   #24
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

Sran wrote: View Post
[LIST=1] [*]Chekov's inability to recognize Ceti Alpha V upon traveling to the planet's system in The Wrath of Khan.
Didn't Khan provide an explanation for that when talking to Terrell and Chekov?

The Enterprise (whether Kirk or Picard's ship) always being the only ship in the vicinity of trouble.
They are the heroes of the story. One way or another, the Enterprise will be involved.


The decision to undertake a project as controversial as Genesis in the relative vicinity of Klingon space. Why not have it developed somewhere besides Regula I?
If noting its proximity to the Klingons is a nod to spies gaining access to Genesis files, then it would not matter where the project was located, as enemy governments send spies anywhere, no matter the distance.
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Old January 20 2014, 01:57 AM   #25
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

The Ceti Alpha system should have had 6 large planetary readings for the ships gravimetric sensors, there were 5, with a large number of smaller ones (debris cloud) or maybe even just 5.

Any cadet graduating the academy should be able to tell the difference from the sensors saying "6" or "5 and a shit load of tiny ones" or "5".

Plus the distortions system wide would have still been readable, objects still settling into more stable orbits after the explosion, given it takes quite a long while for orbital dynamics to settle.

Given Reliant was probably outfitted with far higher resolution sensors and brand new equipment for the Genesis Project, her failing to tell the difference between "5" and "6" is stupid.

* Assuming the system only has 6 planets.
* Reliant was the 3rd Federation starship into the system.
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Old January 20 2014, 02:18 AM   #26
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

Pondwater wrote: View Post
How did Tuvok and the Doctor get to Arizona so quickly in "Future's End"?
Weren't they in the shuttle?
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Old January 20 2014, 02:30 AM   #27
Sran
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Didn't Khan provide an explanation for that when talking to Terrell and Chekov?
See Chemahkuu's post.

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
They are the heroes of the story. One way or another, the Enterprise will be involved.
Even so, it doesn't make sense in-universe that they'd always be there. That's one of the things I like about First Contact. The Enterprise is away from the battle until Picard decides to disobey orders and travel to Earth to stop the Borg cube.

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Old January 20 2014, 03:03 AM   #28
Gov Kodos
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
The Ceti Alpha system should have had 6 large planetary readings for the ships gravimetric sensors, there were 5, with a large number of smaller ones (debris cloud) or maybe even just 5.

Any cadet graduating the academy should be able to tell the difference from the sensors saying "6" or "5 and a shit load of tiny ones" or "5".

Plus the distortions system wide would have still been readable, objects still settling into more stable orbits after the explosion, given it takes quite a long while for orbital dynamics to settle.

Given Reliant was probably outfitted with far higher resolution sensors and brand new equipment for the Genesis Project, her failing to tell the difference between "5" and "6" is stupid.

* Assuming the system only has 6 planets.
* Reliant was the 3rd Federation starship into the system.
Dammit, Captain! I'm a navigator, not an astronomer!
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Old January 20 2014, 03:36 AM   #29
Pondwater
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

teacake wrote: View Post
Pondwater wrote: View Post
How did Tuvok and the Doctor get to Arizona so quickly in "Future's End"?
Weren't they in the shuttle?
I thought the only shuttle that landed was the one Chakotay and BE'Lanna crashed.
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Old January 20 2014, 03:39 AM   #30
Gov Kodos
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Re: Most irreconcilable plot errors in Trek

Pondwater wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Pondwater wrote: View Post
How did Tuvok and the Doctor get to Arizona so quickly in "Future's End"?
Weren't they in the shuttle?
I thought the only shuttle that landed was the one Chakotay and BE'Lanna crashed.
Given Cmdr 'Crash' Chakotay's record with shuttles, it's hard to tell one from the other.
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