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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old January 19 2014, 03:47 AM   #31
Hober Mallow
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

BillJ wrote: View Post
I gotta be honest here, I don't find the remastered effects "better" than most of the original effects.
Sorry, but I'm really pedantic about this: the new CGI FX are not "remastered." The newly added FX are the only part of the show that wasn't remastered. It's the original FX -- along with the rest of the original series -- which were remastered. The remaster of TOS was complete before any new FX were created.

Hey, I did warn you that I'm pedantic.
Maurice wrote: View Post
I assume you meant "master" and not "maser"

Anyway, you're making the common error of conflating "revisionism" with "remastering". Remastering is making a new print/video of a film/show which has been degraded or had poor quality copies made in the past. Re-animating, changing voices, etc., is NOT remastering.
This needs to be repeated again and again and again. And again.
Warped9 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I think they could do new TOS effects that do the originals justice and fit in with the live action elements, I just don't think that happened in TOS-R.
Exactly.
I totally agree. Which is why I watch TOS in glorious HD with the original FX, also in HD. Some of the FX hold up, some don't, but they are what they are, products of their time.
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Old January 19 2014, 08:31 AM   #32
The Lensman
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

I recall Ptrope trying to do a CGI update, but don't know what the status of that is these days.

I'd be up for it to be honest. I don't really have an issue with "re-eFXing" (yeah, I'm making up a new word) Star Trek and I enjoy both versions of the original series. The original FX I grew up with, but the new versions somehow made the world seem more "realized", though I didn't always agree with the execution.

As for the cartoon, well my nostalgia for it isn't as strong as it is for the live action version, but it's still there in some small degree. I do agree that the voice work lacks some punch to it, but I'd still like to see this done.
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Old January 19 2014, 03:28 PM   #33
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

OP: No. If we have learned anything from the frankly ass-brained "re-imagining" of original work, is that it always fails. From the gross butchering seen in the Star Wars Special Editions (and every DVD/Blu-Ray tinkering since that 1997 release), to TOS-R, altering the work as released to the public just to satisfy a generation that cannot wrap their heads around something that does not appeared be Photoshopped ( really CG, but Photoshop is the slang for such tinkering) is a disaster waiting to happen.

More than likely, they would not enjoy the content in the first place, since the "re-imagining" philosophy is one of feeling something of a certain age is "wrong" or "bad."
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Old January 19 2014, 04:08 PM   #34
Warped9
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

When I was younger up into my teens and even early twenties I could be dismissive of some older things even though I had certainly seen enough of it on TV. But as I grew in experience and perception I learned to see the value of more of what came before "my time." I learned that while it could be different from what I was immediately familiar with I was beginning to see a lot of intelligence and talent and vision in it. I was also seeing the foundations of what we have now. There is great value in what came before, not the least of which we wouldn't have what we have now if not for the work of those who came before us.

Sadly an attitude has arisen that if we don't like the past we can revise it, and this goes beyond just making a new version like a remake or reboot. Now they want to redo the actual original work. In my view this revisionist attitude corrupts the context of the original work and is disrespectful of the creative efforts of many talented individuals who strived to create art and magic with next to none of the resources that exist today.

For me an excellent example of this is 2001: A Space Odyssey. The f/x in that film are astounding, the pinnacle of what could be done then, and all without cgi.

But it wouldn't surprise me if someone somewhere thinks it should be redone.
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Old January 19 2014, 05:17 PM   #35
J.T.B.
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

RAMA wrote: View Post
Actually it's not, they are clearly better than what they did in the 1960s. As for whether it was "state of the art" that's another matter entirely. You may prefer the poorer effects of the 60s, but that doesn't make them better.
Yes, yes, that old line... There is no "clearly better" except personal preference. I can say the original effects are "better" because they don't look so glaringly out-of-place compared to the rest of the production. But it's all opinion, there is no objective standard.

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Sadly an attitude has arisen that if we don't like the past we can revise it, and this goes beyond just making a new version like a remake or reboot. Now they want to redo the actual original work. In my view this revisionist attitude corrupts the context of the original work and is disrespectful of the creative efforts of many talented individuals who strived to create art and magic with next to none of the resources that exist today.
What we might call "revising," as opposed to "preservation" or "re-mastering," has nothing to do with original intent or artistic integrity. All it has to do with is getting new money from an old property. As such, it will continue as long as the numbers are right, but little should be expected of it artistically.
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Old January 19 2014, 05:41 PM   #36
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

"What is art?" can be highly subjective. What one finds as art can be seen as disposable trash by someone else.

Something like TOS-R or Lucas' tinkering is not preserving the past, but erasing and rewriting it. Actual remastering a work does preserve the past because it's basically cleaning it up. But it has become common for many to confuse revisioning with remastering. They are distinctly different things.
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Old January 19 2014, 06:20 PM   #37
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
"What is art?" can be highly subjective. What one finds as art can be seen as disposable trash by someone else.

Something like TOS-R or Lucas' tinkering is not preserving the past, but erasing and rewriting it. Actual remastering a work does preserve the past because it's basically cleaning it up. But it has become common for many to confuse revisioning with remastering. They are distinctly different things.
I just plain disagree here. I don't mind the tinkering as long as the originals are available in their unaltered form for those that want it that way. By locking it down, you're essentially guaranteeing that eventually the property will fall out of the public consciousness.

Essentially, CBS did it the right way with TOS (regardless of what I think of the results) and Lucas did it the wrong way with Star Wars.
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Old January 19 2014, 06:23 PM   #38
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

^^ We will dimply have to agree to disagree.
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Old January 19 2014, 06:26 PM   #39
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
^^ We will dimply have to agree to disagree.
Indeed. We "dimply" will.
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Old January 19 2014, 06:51 PM   #40
milojthatch
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS RemasTered project?

Maurice wrote: View Post
I assume you meant "master" and not "maser"
Yes, stupid typos!

BillJ wrote: View Post
Count me as one that would be interested in the series being updated with modern animation. I'd even like to see an episode re-voiced by the actors involved with the current films. *ducks*

But I would also want the original unaltered episodes included on any release.
I completely agree, any updated animation/changes should be accompanied with the original versions on Blu-ray. I actually LOVED that the TOS Blu-rays came with both versions.

I think some who read my original post are focusing on my possible suggestions too much. A blu-ray release for TAS doesn't have to be anything more than converting the show as is to HD. In that sence, yes, it would be a "remastered" version.
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Old January 19 2014, 06:55 PM   #41
Hober Mallow
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
For me an excellent example of this is 2001: A Space Odyssey. The f/x in that film are astounding, the pinnacle of what could be done then, and all without cgi.
It's even more amazing when you realize this was being done at the same time TOS was being produced -- and even a decade later theatrical SF films were being released with crappier FX.
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Something like TOS-R or Lucas' tinkering is not preserving the past, but erasing and rewriting it.
You do know that TOS was remastered with all the original FX intact, right? I'm not quite seeing how simply retransferring the original film master is rewriting anything.
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Old January 19 2014, 06:56 PM   #42
spockboy
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

Here is a full length (rarely seen) new TAS episode called "Return to Triskelion" using the TAS style with proper TOS music (mostly) and a CG Enterprise and
new voice actors doing the original TOS actors (as someone had mentioned)
https://vimeo.com/4438987

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Old January 19 2014, 07:18 PM   #43
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

For me, I love TAS, but I'm coming to it from not just a Star Trek fan perspective, but as an amateur animation historian. From an animation perspective, the Filmation years were really interesting and I would go so far as to say important to animation. Filmation and Hanna-Barbera, while both used limited forms of animation, basically invented Saturday Morning cartoons and really made tv animation acceptable to the masses. Far better animated properties from the 80's, 90's and today would not have existed with Filmation and H-B.

Now from the Star Trek perspective, until the DVD's came out, I had never seen an episode. It was 2009, I was really missing Star Trek on tv and that dumb JJ-Trek film was fresh on my mind. I was really missing the Star Trek I became a fan of and feeling really down that outside of JJ-Trek, it was all done. Then on a random shopping trip, I ran into TAS for $15 (sale price mind you) and decided to give it a go. It was like finding lost Star Trek I didn't really know existed! It actually got me excited about Star Trek again.

I really see the two seasons as the last two years of Kirk's five-year mission, and unlike fan films (no offense to the hard working fans that make them), it was actually made by a lot of the same people that made TOS! For me, the main things I'd love to see changed however on a possible Blu-ray would be fixes to various glitches in the show (i.e. the voice of one character coming out of another character's mouth, etc.) and the much need color correction. Poor Hal Sutherland as I understand it was color blind, but it would be nice to see Klingons, Kzinti and Tribbles in the colors they were meant to be seen in.
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Old January 19 2014, 07:20 PM   #44
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

BillJ wrote: View Post
I don't mind the tinkering as long as the originals are available in their unaltered form for those that want it that way.
That is an old--and false argument. Take the original Star Wars trilogy: Lucas deliberately removed the original version from home video to replace them with the 1997-forward Special Edition changes. In a marketplace, one cannot expect interest consumers to dig back into fading or dead technology (ex. VHS, Beta, laserdisc, etc.) to satisfy their entertainment needs--or concern for history. In fact, that is exactly what is being asked of innumerable fans who want the theatrical version preserved as best as possible...and wasting money on old technology is not doing that.

In 2006, Lucas/Fox released a DVD of the unaltered films (presumably to shut fans up), but the near-unanimous view was that it was not the same transfer as that for the SE, but was something reminiscent of the muddy laserdics.

The original films in a best preserved format do not exist, because Lucas--in his quest to keep the films up to the cartoony standards of today's fantasy movies--only pushes the ever-altered Special Editions.


By locking it down, you're essentially guaranteeing that eventually the property will fall out of the public consciousness.
Oh? The point is that the original work be respected and preserved on the best format available, which has nothing to do with so-called artistic changes the film never needed to entertain generations of fans.

For one example, if you ever see the the behind the scenes of Universal's Classic Monsters - The Essential Collection Blu-Ray set, technicians recall how they worked to maintain the original artistic integrity of the various filmmakers' work, but cleaned up scratches, etc...but it was not replacing or adding entire scenes (for whatever reason).

The films are as close to 100% to what has been in circulation since Universal first packaged its horror films to TV in the 1950s...but generations still accept the work, while I ague anyone else saying that cannot watch it (for Lucas-ian reasons) were not too interested to experience the work in any case.

Essentially, CBS did it the right way with TOS (regardless of what I think of the results) and Lucas did it the wrong way with Star Wars.
Video-game level shots of the 1701 are a distraction, while the terrible modern transitions from CG back to the 35mm film are also glaring.

I'll give CBS this much: offering the Blu-Rays with both versions acknowledges that TOS-R was not the accepted "final word" representation of the series.
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Old January 19 2014, 07:25 PM   #45
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Re: Who wants to see a TAS Remasered project?

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I don't mind the tinkering as long as the originals are available in their unaltered form for those that want it that way.
That is an old--and false argument.
Did you miss the part where BillJ said that Lucas did this "the wrong way?" I don't think anyone here in this thread is endorsing what Lucas has done to the original Star Wars trilogy.
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