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Old January 13 2014, 04:37 PM   #91
Allyn Gibson
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Yminale wrote: View Post
I also don't see how this show can last more than one season.
It's not supposed to. NBC commissioned it as a single 10 episode mini-series.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
It doesn't so much bother me as puzzle me, in that I'm occasionally confused by the logistics and rules of this particular universe. Where exactly is Mina living and just how alternate is this version of Victorian London?
I think Mina lives with her father. I seem to remember him entering her bedroom earlier in the series.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Yminale wrote: View Post
...Harker is so unlikable that you are almost forced too root for Dracula to win over Mina's heart.
I think that's exactly the idea. In order to make a bloodthirsty monster a sympathetic protagonist, they've had to make the other characters worse in comparison.
Yes, but as either you or Greg said earlier in the thread, Christopher, Harker is a milquetoast character to begin with.

Yet, I don't think that Yminale quite has it right in saying that Harker is "so unlikable." I think that Harker exists to demonstrate the corrupting influence of Dracula (which Mina railed against in the latest episode), and his arc has been his fall from innocence to depravity. In a sense, he's a bit like Renfield from Tod Browning's Dracula -- a man who loses himself due to Dracula's influence.
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Old January 13 2014, 05:11 PM   #92
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Yminale wrote: View Post
I also don't see how this show can last more than one season.
It's not supposed to. NBC commissioned it as a single 10 episode mini-series.
Thanks for clearing things up. It still feels we are only half-way through the story though.

Yet, I don't think that Yminale quite has it right in saying that Harker is "so unlikable." I think that Harker exists to demonstrate the corrupting influence of Dracula (which Mina railed against in the latest episode), and his arc has been his fall from innocence to depravity. In a sense, he's a bit like Renfield from Tod Browning's Dracula -- a man who loses himself due to Dracula's influence.
Harker was a loser before he met Dracula. Remember the relationship problems he had with Mina. I find it Ironic that Dracula is trying to encourage Harker to be a better person knowing that he'll completely fail and be the exact opposite.
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Old January 13 2014, 05:32 PM   #93
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Yminale wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
NBC commissioned it as a single 10 episode mini-series.
Thanks for clearing things up. It still feels we are only half-way through the story though.
No, I think we're on target for a conclusion Friday after next.

Things are falling apart, and all episode nine has to do is end with the realization by some people (Lady Jayne among them) that Dracula and Grayson are one and the same, and we're set for the finale and everything going to hell.

Yminale wrote: View Post
Harker was a loser before he met Dracula. Remember the relationship problems he had with Mina. I find it Ironic that Dracula is trying to encourage Harker to be a better person knowing that he'll completely fail and be the exact opposite.
That's not irony. That's all part of Dracula's game. For example, I thought he was trying to keep Harker from doing anything rash due to the acid attack, only it turned out that Dracula was actually egging him on to deal with Davenport.
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Old January 13 2014, 05:55 PM   #94
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
That's not irony. That's all part of Dracula's game. For example, I thought he was trying to keep Harker from doing anything rash due to the acid attack, only it turned out that Dracula was actually egging him on to deal with Davenport.
But isn't that what irony is.

As defined by Wikipedia.

"a rhetorical device, literary technique, or event characterized by an incongruity, or contrast, between what the expectations of a situation are and what is really the case, with a third element, that defines that what is really the case is ironic because of the situation that led to it."
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Old January 13 2014, 07:59 PM   #95
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Yminale wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
That's not irony. That's all part of Dracula's game. For example, I thought he was trying to keep Harker from doing anything rash due to the acid attack, only it turned out that Dracula was actually egging him on to deal with Davenport.
But isn't that what irony is.

As defined by Wikipedia.

"a rhetorical device, literary technique, or event characterized by an incongruity, or contrast, between what the expectations of a situation are and what is really the case, with a third element, that defines that what is really the case is ironic because of the situation that led to it."
If Dracula were actually trying to help Harker, but everything Dracula did actually made Harker screw up, then, yes, that would be ironic.

But Dracula is manipulating Harker, telling him one thing but subtly pushing him to do something else. So, Dracula is getting the results that he wants from Harker. Not ironic.
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Old January 13 2014, 08:25 PM   #96
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Re: Dracula - NBC

^But that's what Yminale said. "I find it Ironic that Dracula is trying to encourage Harker to be a better person knowing that he'll completely fail and be the exact opposite." I think what Yminale means is that it might appear to the observer that Dracula was trying to encourage Harker, but the truth was that he was setting him up for a fall all along, hence it runs counter to our expectations.

Still, I think I agree with you that that isn't irony -- it's just a character having a hidden motive. And really, since he is Dracula, it's not really counter to the audience's expectations when he does something harmful to another person. What would be ironic would be if it turned out he'd really meant well all along.
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Old January 14 2014, 12:03 PM   #97
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Christopher wrote: View Post
What would be ironic would be if it turned out he'd really meant well all along.
That's my sense of what's happening. It always appears that Dracula is encouraging him to do the right thing but accept for going back to Mina, he does the exact opposite.

After watching Dracula Rising, I can see why he's so effective in manipulating Harker. Harker is very much like a young Vlad Teppes.
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Old January 14 2014, 04:00 PM   #98
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Re: Dracula - NBC

^I don't understand. What you're saying, apparently, is that Dracula is only pretending to mean well and is really manipulating Harker down a dark path. But that isn't irony, it's just having a hidden agenda.
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Old January 18 2014, 05:32 AM   #99
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Re: Dracula - NBC

So apparently Lucy does live with her mother . . . .
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Old January 18 2014, 06:37 AM   #100
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Re: Dracula - NBC

I don't think Jonathan Rhys Meyers has found the right part yet since the Tudors competed its run. He was excellent in that series. He's performed well in diverse projects like Ride the Devil, Matchpoint, and Bend it like Beckham. I enjoyed the Children of Huang Shi since he and Radha Mitchell had chemistry, though it wasn't a popular film.

His American accent was unnecessary and it sounded forced. I have no idea why it was necessary to use that. So many English actors also speak French. It would have made more sense to use that kind of accent instead if at all.

Changing such a famous story is always going to be a problem. Some stories are timeless and there's no need to reinvent them. Can you imagine altering The Godfather? People would have a cow.
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Old January 18 2014, 03:19 PM   #101
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Re: Dracula - NBC

"If you insist on behaving like a monster, then I will make you one."

That was not the ending I expected. I thought we'd see Dracula's secret identity exposed and his empire under assault by the (other) forces of darkness. Instead, we had Dracula's attack on Lucy

I don't know if the pained expression on Dracula's face as he left Mina's hospital room the final time was a "Lucy, WTF?" or a "Lucy, who put you up to this?" I doubt that Dracula knows of the games that Lady Jayne was playing with Lucy, so I suppose it's the former. But I can't imagine a reason why Dracula fangs Lucy and turns her. Yes, it was pretty hot (I always thought Katie McGrath was a weak actress, but she managed a look of pure rapture when she turned), but I don't see how vampire Lucy furthers any of Dracula's schemes, especially now that he has his great work, the Resonator, back. Fanging her, yes, I can understand that. Lucy hurt Mina, and now Dracula's going to hurt her. But turning her into a vampire? He's leaving an unpredictable piece in play, especially if the Order (and Lady Layne in particular) comes across her. All I can imagine is that the creative decision on Lucy was, "Well, Lucy becomes a vampire in the book and her destruction leads to Dracula's discovery," but that's a reason external to the story.

In general, I was surprised by how much material Lucy had this week. In retrospect, I shouldn't have been -- we needed Harker's walk of shame and Lucy being caught, Lucy's realization that she's been played by Lady Jayne, and Lucy's awkward attempt at making amends with Mina. On the first, as Greg said, we now know Lucy's living arrangements. On the second, I have to wonder if vampire Lucy will take on Lady Jayne next week in revenge and that's how Dracula's dual identity gets blown. And on the third, that scene in the hospital could not have gone anything like Lucy imagined it would have gone.

I love how Renfield remains the voice of sanity in this series. He recognized that Davenport was running rogue ops, but I don't know that anything would have happened differently had Dracula heeded Renfield's words of warning. Actually, come to think of it, Dracula would have been in a worse position; the Order was already planning to move against Grayson, which would have had Dracula on the defensive on both fronts, whereas now he's on the offensive on one front at least.

"Four Roses" struck an interesting balance -- Dracula launched a frontal assault on the Order, yet he managed to remain sympathetic. His sense of triumph when he learned the Resonator was safe to use was palpable (even though we know it's a set-up). His bedside vigil for Mina was touching, and their final conversation, where Mina has finally decided to listen to her heart, was lovely. Everything Dracula wants is in his grasp -- the destruction of the Order, his gift of free energy, and his love for Mina. It's hard not to root for him, and I hope he achieves at least two of the three next week.

So that's what I want next week -- the two love birds, Dracula and Mina, riding off into the sunset, leaving the wreckage of the Order and that skunk Harker behind them to start life anew.

And lots of explosions, too. Because you just know that Browning is going to get his "catastrophic." Oh, and lots of bloodletting, because Dracula and Lady Jayne need a throwdown. Fortunately, the next time trailer showed us both.

This is completely not the series I thought it was going to be. It's infinitely more fun.
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Old January 18 2014, 03:51 PM   #102
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
So apparently Lucy does live with her mother . . . .
And her mother is Kate Lethbridge-Stewart!


Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I love how Renfield remains the voice of sanity in this series. He recognized that Davenport was running rogue ops, but I don't know that anything would have happened differently had Dracula heeded Renfield's words of warning.
Renfield did make some really skilled deductions here. Now I want to see a spinoff where Renfield leaves Dracula's employ and becomes a consulting detective. Maybe he hooks up with a young fellow named Doyle who wants to chronicle his adventures, but The Strand won't buy stories whose hero is a black American...

Or heck, just give Nonso Anozie a modern-day detective series. He's a really impressive screen presence and could easily carry his own show.
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Old January 18 2014, 03:55 PM   #103
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Christopher wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
So apparently Lucy does live with her mother . . . .
And her mother is Kate Lethbridge-Stewart!
I thought she looked familiar!
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Old January 18 2014, 05:56 PM   #104
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Re: Dracula - NBC

Probably just me, but when Dracula was trying to process the news about Jonathan and Lucy, it almost looked as though he was thinking "Lucy? Who is Lucy again?"

Up to now, he's barely seemed to notice her!
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Old January 19 2014, 05:05 AM   #105
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Re: Dracula - NBC

I expected Lucy to try and commit suicide and Dracula would turn her to save her. How it played out made no sense because now she's a wild card.

Any chance another network will pick this show up since it's dead on NBC?
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