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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old January 16 2014, 01:29 PM   #16
milojthatch
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Only one problem, though, for the show shown in the picture, would the cast members want to do voices of the characters, especially considering that Stewart and Spiner basically said good-bye to their roles with Nemesis? If they don', other actors might have to be hired to do the voices of Picard & Data, or all of the characters if the originals don't want to come back (although this might solve Michael Dorn's problem of coming back as Worf.)
As a pointed out in my original post, both Stewart and Spiner are also noted voice actors. I'm not saying they would, but if they ever were to come back to the Picard and Data roles, I'd wager this is the only way it would happen.

Based on what I've read from interviews with both of them, I don't think they would be against such an idea. Keep in mind back in 2002, they were both giddy about the idea of one more film. I think in 2014, the issue for both isn't so much a desire to move on from Trek so much as Trek seems to have moved on from them and it's a lot of hard work making live action Star Trek.

I mean my gosh, Brent Spiner had to wake up at some ungodly hour of the day for weeks, even months to put on the Data make-up and he had to keep it on the whole day. Even while he ate or went to the bathroom. Now compare that to coming to work for an hour or two in your pj's if you so wish to do voice acting work. Now seriously, which one would you want to do?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I think animation is the future of Star Trek, but it's going to be -- and should be -- a reboot. Berman-Trek is done.
First off, NO MORE RE-BOOTS! And I say that fully expecting we'll be seeing a re-boot of the current re-boot in a few years.

As for Roddenberry/Berman-Trek (The two versions are in fact, one in the same), it may be done, and if it is, I personally feel I'm starting to come to peace with that sad fact. However, never say never. Clearly, I'm not the only fan who misses the so-called "Prime" Universe. Nothing wrong for having hope. Frankly, that's what's wrong with the World today, not enough hope! We are all so cynical and brooding. In the case of Star Trek, the show is all about hope. That is one of the big themes that attracted me to the franchise in the first place. I can't understand why so many of her fans seem to lack it. *sigh*
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Old January 16 2014, 10:55 PM   #17
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

milojthatch wrote: View Post
I can't understand why so many of her fans seem to lack it.
Berman-era Trek languished a long, long time in comparative mediocrity (and worse) before the end came with Nemesis. It's been a long road, so to speak, gettin' from there to here.

It may also be that the core concept of Trek is just harder and harder to square with our times. The original show after all was essentially about the adventures of Horatio Hornblower in the American space navy, and about using that concept as a framework to tell a variety of stories in an SF setting. This concept gave it most of its major strengths, but a lot of the cultural backdrop that made it resonate -- the presumption that it was possible to succesfully idealize the age of tall ships (or gunboat diplomacy), the belief in uncomplicated American exceptionalism, the audience that was widely-acquainted with military men and military ideals, America's real status as a titan of economics and statesmanship which was expressed in the future "Earth" or "Federation" -- is just gone or vastly changed now. So updating it does become a real challenge.

But I got hope.
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Old January 17 2014, 12:34 AM   #18
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

milojthatch wrote: View Post
First off, NO MORE RE-BOOTS! And I say that fully expecting we'll be seeing a re-boot of the current re-boot in a few years.
* shrug *

It's arguable that the Abrams movies are more like the third or fourth reboot - it's just that the other reboots were a lot softer.

However, to your point - I think at this time it's pretty clear that the "iconic" version of Star Trek in the minds of general audienced is Kirk/Spock, which leads me to believe most further film and perhaps television are more likely to feature their adventures - so I'm betting you're "re-boot of the re-boot" will happen after the current Bad Robot series ends.
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Old January 17 2014, 04:59 PM   #19
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

Here's how I would do an animated Star Trek:

https://vimeo.com/73067920
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Old January 17 2014, 06:03 PM   #20
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

BigJake wrote: View Post
milojthatch wrote: View Post
I can't understand why so many of her fans seem to lack it.
It may also be that the core concept of Trek is just harder and harder to square with our times. The original show after all was essentially about the adventures of Horatio Hornblower in the American space navy, and about using that concept as a framework to tell a variety of stories in an SF setting. This concept gave it most of its major strengths, but a lot of the cultural backdrop that made it resonate -- the presumption that it was possible to succesfully idealize the age of tall ships (or gunboat diplomacy), the belief in uncomplicated American exceptionalism, the audience that was widely-acquainted with military men and military ideals, America's real status as a titan of economics and statesmanship which was expressed in the future "Earth" or "Federation" -- is just gone or vastly changed now. So updating it does become a real challenge.
As much as I may hate to admit it, you may have some truth there. Maybe our current society has changed too much to accept something like Star Trek. And I say that not just based on the JJ-Trek films, but the more dark and gritty versions of a lot of beloved characters from the past. Man of Steel comes to mind instantly, but there are others. Personally, I strongly dis-like the path we as a society have taken post 9/11 in the way we've changed and embraced the newer versions of classic literature, film and tv characters, many who easy can be said or prat of American myth and legend. I personally feel we are in a dark time period and I really hope it ends sooner than rather then later.


drt wrote: View Post
milojthatch wrote: View Post
First off, NO MORE RE-BOOTS! And I say that fully expecting we'll be seeing a re-boot of the current re-boot in a few years.
However, to your point - I think at this time it's pretty clear that the "iconic" version of Star Trek in the minds of general audienced is Kirk/Spock, which leads me to believe most further film and perhaps television are more likely to feature their adventures - so I'm betting you're "re-boot of the re-boot" will happen after the current Bad Robot series ends.
Personally, I feel Star Trek is bigger than Kirk or Spock. However, as much as it may annoy me a little, I'd have to agree about them being the center of the Star Trek world to general audiences.


captainkirk wrote: View Post
Here's how I would do an animated Star Trek:

https://vimeo.com/73067920
It looks great, but personally, I either want to see a hand drawn show or if it must be CG, I say it's better to go for a more realistic look.

You know, if it looked realistic enough, maybe some fans who don't care for animated Trek might give it a try anyway? That said, that pesky "Uncanny Valley" might get in the way!
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Old January 18 2014, 02:10 AM   #21
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

milojthatch wrote: View Post
I personally feel we are in a dark time period and I really hope it ends sooner than rather then later.
I hear you on that one. But I think there are some bright spots:

- We live in an era of genuinely international achievement. Watching the Chinese space program and economy take off is cool as hell, for instance, though of course no such development comes without its dangers.

- We live in an era when, dysfunctional as the politics of the West (hell, of much of the world) might be, more and more previously marginalized people are finding a way into the mainstream. The transition of gay marriage from taboo to acceptance in the space of just a few years is itself practically science fiction. The pervasive sexism and racism that was normal in the Sixties is receding (though perhaps no age will ever totally banish either ill).

- For all the (well justified) apocalyptic anxieties of the age, we also live in an era where the solutions to problems like climate change are in easier reach than ever... and even in an era where NASA is seriously studying warp drive and we're seeing the real-life fruition of things that Sixties SF just speculated about.

So there are lots of ways to re-anchor and re-conceive something like Trek and lots of positives to draw upon.
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Old January 18 2014, 03:48 AM   #22
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

BigJake wrote: View Post
milojthatch wrote: View Post
I personally feel we are in a dark time period and I really hope it ends sooner than rather then later.
I hear you on that one. But I think there are some bright spots:

- We live in an era of genuinely international achievement. Watching the Chinese space program and economy take off is cool as hell, for instance, though of course no such development comes without its dangers.

- We live in an era when, dysfunctional as the politics of the West (hell, of much of the world) might be, more and more previously marginalized people are finding a way into the mainstream. The transition of gay marriage from taboo to acceptance in the space of just a few years is itself practically science fiction. The pervasive sexism and racism that was normal in the Sixties is receding (though perhaps no age will ever totally banish either ill).

- For all the (well justified) apocalyptic anxieties of the age, we also live in an era where the solutions to problems like climate change are in easier reach than ever... and even in an era where NASA is seriously studying warp drive and we're seeing the real-life fruition of things that Sixties SF just speculated about.

So there are lots of ways to re-anchor and re-conceive something like Trek and lots of positives to draw upon.
I have to disagree with you on one of your points that I'd rather not say (on this thread at least). For me, the point in question is actually a big part of the dark times. *sigh*

But yes, I agree not everything is dark. I believe that there is as much good as there is bad. The bad just likes to shout more to get attention.
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Old January 18 2014, 03:54 AM   #23
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

Here is a different concept of what an animated Star Trek: Deep Space Nine might look like:
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Old January 18 2014, 03:55 AM   #24
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

milojthatch wrote: View Post
For me, the point in question is actually a big part of the dark times. *sigh*
Well, even there -- and I will resist the temptation to ask -- that's the kind of disagreement that can be fodder for interesting conflicts in the setting, and used right can deepen its realism. One of the problems Trek has had in the past has been a suspicious lack of controversy in the setting about what really constituted progress, or who was really best qualified to lead the society of the future.
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Old January 18 2014, 05:24 AM   #25
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

milojthatch wrote: View Post
It looks great, but personally, I either want to see a hand drawn show or if it must be CG, I say it's better to go for a more realistic look.

You know, if it looked realistic enough, maybe some fans who don't care for animated Trek might give it a try anyway? That said, that pesky "Uncanny Valley" might get in the way!
Thanks. One other problem with a more realistic style is that it takes much longer to animate well. Even if it's not something on a Tintin level, just something like the humans in Toy Story or Finding Nemo it's a lot harder to animate than if it's more stylized.

I do also love the look of good hand-drawn animation. But the problem there is that most people try to do it as cheaply as possible and it shows in the final result. A lot of the time they just use 3D rendered as 2D and that rarely looks good.
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Old January 18 2014, 06:59 AM   #26
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

What I'd personally want to see: not a reboot. Whether one qualifies the previous new shows following on from TOS as "not reboots" or "soft reboots", those are fine. All they really did was take the existing universe and create a new story IN it set farther ahead in time. I'd much rather see something like this, where we run with a brand new set of characters and ideas, than creating the third version of the Kirk/Spock/Enterprise story. I'd be more enthused about a TNG animated reboot than a TOS animated reboot, partly because it hasn't been done and partly because I prefer 24th century Trek anyway, but my #1 choice is still something entirely new in terms of the characters and stories. The only "reboot" aspect I'd want to see is perhaps making a clean break in terms of the setting - rebooting in the sense of what nuBSG did, where there is no in-universe connection to the old setting. They are too entirely different entities spun from the same base concepts. But, unlike with nuBSG, I still prefer the idea of the characters in a new Trek series being entirely new (and the ship not being "Enterprise", while we're at it).

Animation-style wise, pretty much a semi-realistic look would be my first choice, either as full CG - i.e. something along the lines of FFVII: Advent Children - or a kind of CG-with-cel-shading-so-it-looks-like-2D look. I think the tech and capability to create high-quality CG animation for a weekly show is already here, as evidenced by stuff like Transformers: Prime (which is also a good example since a lot of the main visual content is sci-fi in nature): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXxmMW5USHg

Personally, while I'm certainly not trying to impugn their quality simply as art (they're definitely well drawn and are obviously intentionally very stylized), I'm not as much a fan of either of the examples posted by milojthatch, when thinking about the kind of look I'd want for an actual Trek show.

I would combine a brand new set of characters with animation like I described above in a serialized, arc-based story with a very serious, modern treatment of the Trek setting - more DS9 crossed with some stylistic and tonal elements of STID, and less TOS or TNG, in terms of the overall tone and feel.

What is most likely to even be made, let alone be successful: something else. I fully acknowledge that what I'd personally be most interested in seeing (or would make, if given the opportunity) and what is most likely to be made and succeed as a Star Trek production, are two different things. While I generally like the Abrams films for the most part, I'm tired of Star Trek "being" Kirk, Spock, and the Enterprise. Yeah, it's the most popular part, I'm not saying I don't understand that, just that I think it's a shame that - outside the novels - this whole huge universe is being ignored in favor of obsessing over this one set of characters over and over. I also feel that another Trek series that examines politics, morality, war, and other such weighty subjects to anywhere near the level that DS9 did is a near impossibility, despite that it's what I'd most like to see.
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Old January 18 2014, 11:41 AM   #27
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

The price is definitely right, compared to doing a Live Action STAR TREK! Animation may be the best bet of seeing STAR TREK return to the small screen ...
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Old January 19 2014, 07:43 PM   #28
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

I'm sure it has been talked about on this forum, but I thought the ideas for the aborted animated web series Star Trek: Final Frontier sounded interesting. I wasn't a big fan of their design of the futuristic Enterprise per say, but I thought they had the right idea in how to keep Star Trek going.



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Old January 19 2014, 09:16 PM   #29
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

This is the Star Trek animated series I want to see.
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Old January 19 2014, 09:20 PM   #30
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Re: The Future of Star Trek - Animation?

^^
I'd watch that. If the storytelling could match the visuals (and the visuals could hold up in motion) it would be great.
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