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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 17 2014, 05:32 AM   #16
Khan444
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Re: Action hero Picard

Well, there are several issues.
1. Picard was always more of a diplomat who tried to talk his way out of situations and only resorted to force as a very last resort. Maybe that was the intention in the films, but if so then it was poorly executed.
2. There are already TWO characters on the Enterprise who fit the "action hero" model better than Picard, Riker and Worf. If Nemesis had been written competently, then instead of Picard going to duel Shinzon for some vague "I need to do it myself" reason, it should have been Worf. You know, the experienced Klingon warrior who loves to fight and is perfectly willing to die in battle if necessary.
3. Seeing a 60+ year old man with a artificial heart doing Rambo-style action scenes just didn't look right, especially with Riker and Worf around.
4. It just wasn't as interesting as his portrayal in the TV show.
5. They essentially turned him into Kirk, when he was specifically designed to be different from Kirk.
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Old January 17 2014, 05:46 AM   #17
Timewalker
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Re: Action hero Picard

desfem79 wrote: View Post
From what I read/heard, Sir Stewart requested it because he felt it was needed for Picard to grow as a character. and IMO it makes sense, the CO of a ship has to be hands on when required, not just monitor the away team from the bridge, say "make it so", or "engage".

Starship Mine and Captain's Holiday are two of my favourite TNG eps anyhow. And a bad Picard-centric episode is like a snowy day in the Rub Al'Khali, it's never been known to happen lol..
Just a reminder that when referring to someone who has been knighted, it's "Sir (first name)." So in this case, it's "Sir Patrick," not "Sir Stewart."

Whoa Nellie wrote: View Post
I must admit I'm quite baffled by the whole debate over 'Erudite Picard' versus 'Action Picard.' I've always seen both those facets combining to create the whole. With Picard, TNG canon has given us a rich, multi-faceted character; one who reads ancient Greek and Latin classics and Shakespeare as well as hard-boiled detective novels. He plays the flute as well as rides horses, fences, and does a little rock climbing. He drinks tea as well as Aldebaran whiskey. He is a diplomat who appears to have a certain degree of special ops training. Like the TOS episode "The Enemy Within" did with Kirk's character, TNG's episode "Tapestry" does a beautiful job of showing that it takes both the erudite and well as the "Hell bent for leather" ensign who was stabbed through the heart in a barroom brawl facets to make Picard the flagship captain. Picard is the erudite who can rise to the role of action hero when the situation requires.

As far as being the 'muscle,' how many of you guys are built like this?



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Jean-Luc Picard is a true Renaissance man in every sense that counts. He's accomplished in the arts and sciences, he's highly literate, he's athletic, he's equally at home in any social setting from the gutter to the highest echelons, he's a military man and a diplomat, he's multilingual (Federation Standard/English, French, and at least some Klingon), he's a fighter and a lover, and not afraid to lead by example.

And his portrayer, Patrick Stewart, looks damn fine in a short Roman tunic!
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Old January 17 2014, 05:54 AM   #18
Lance
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Re: Action hero Picard

Khan444 wrote: View Post
Well, there are several issues.
1. Picard was always more of a diplomat who tried to talk his way out of situations and only resorted to force as a very last resort. Maybe that was the intention in the films, but if so then it was poorly executed.
2. There are already TWO characters on the Enterprise who fit the "action hero" model better than Picard, Riker and Worf. If Nemesis had been written competently, then instead of Picard going to duel Shinzon for some vague "I need to do it myself" reason, it should have been Worf. You know, the experienced Klingon warrior who loves to fight and is perfectly willing to die in battle if necessary.
3. Seeing a 60+ year old man with a artificial heart doing Rambo-style action scenes just didn't look right, especially with Riker and Worf around.
4. It just wasn't as interesting as his portrayal in the TV show.
5. They essentially turned him into Kirk, when he was specifically designed to be different from Kirk.
To be far on NEMESIS, the movie does give a reasonable explanation for why Riker doesn't go down there to fight Shinzon: he's got his *own* 'revenge' story, and he takes on the Viceroy. Admittedly it's such a damp squib it's easy to see why people forget it, but still, script writer John Logan had his bases covered on that one.

Worf, though? Not so much. I'll give you that.

INSURRECTION should really have been Picard's big chance to not be an action hero for a change. The script was weighed more towards philosophical debate anyway, and that one should have ended with Picard reasoning with Ru'afo, and convincing him with words to put down his arms, and take up residency with his old people once more.

Instead, we got yet another scene of Picard fighting a guy like he's Bruce Willis or something, and then leaving Ru'afo to burn to death while he gets beamed safely away.

But then, I think fans would still kvetch on the internet about how 'Picard talking to a guy is a weak ending for a movie'. So what could they do? They would be damned if they did, and they would be damned if they didn't.
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Old January 17 2014, 09:17 AM   #19
JarodRussell
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Re: Action hero Picard

Picard already reasoned Rua'fos brother with words. But Ruafo simply couldn't be reasoned with. So where's the problem?
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Old January 17 2014, 10:10 AM   #20
Tosk
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Re: Action hero Picard

The problem isn't Picard getting in on the action...the problem is the structure they keep forcing on the Trek movies. Trek movies are at their best when they are not trying so hard to be action movies. Yes yes, in my opinion.
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Old January 17 2014, 11:20 AM   #21
2takesfrakes
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Re: Action hero Picard

Sir Patrick Stewart always kept himself in great shape - partly because he likes young(er) women - so, I've never had a hard time believing that any of his characters, including Jean Luc Picard, were able of kicking some ass. Also, I've never forgotten what Picard was like in his youth, and I seriously doubt that he has. But he keeps that part of him in check, now. Picard's not timid, or weak, but he had become more thoughtful after his heart replacement. Think first ... then take action. Thing was, action wasn't always required, when sometimes it was just a matter of dialogue, or an introduction of a third party to the mix. But it's welcome, at least for me, to see the "old" Picard get to come out and remind him of his younger days. Seeing him scratching his itch to dog the Argo on the rough terrain of an alien landscape was but one notable expression of this ...
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Old January 17 2014, 04:34 PM   #22
Cyke101
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Re: Action hero Picard

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Seeing him scratching his itch to dog the Argo on the rough terrain of an alien landscape was but one notable expression of this ...
In blatant disregard of the Prime Directive, with even less concern for the indigenous population than NuKirk, too. That's one thing about latter-movie Action Picard -- his sense of logic really seemed to decrease to that of an adrenaline junkie, taking plenty of unnecessary risks when even earlier examples of Action Picard still balanced out wit and the physical.
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Old January 17 2014, 07:26 PM   #23
jimbotron
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Re: Action hero Picard

Inappropriate "action" in TNG movies?

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a...tionhd1386.jpg

Nuff said.
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Old January 17 2014, 08:20 PM   #24
jimbotron
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Re: Action hero Picard

TrekCore posted this on Facebook today. Very appropriate

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Old January 17 2014, 09:43 PM   #25
Whoa Nellie
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Re: Action hero Picard

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Jean-Luc Picard is a true Renaissance man in every sense that counts. He's accomplished in the arts and sciences, he's highly literate, he's athletic, he's equally at home in any social setting from the gutter to the highest echelons, he's a military man and a diplomat, he's multilingual (Federation Standard/English, French, and at least some Klingon), he's a fighter and a lover, and not afraid to lead by example.

And his portrayer, Patrick Stewart, looks damn fine in a short Roman tunic!
Indeed he does!
Very well said!

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
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Old January 17 2014, 10:12 PM   #26
BillJ
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Re: Action hero Picard

jimbotron wrote: View Post
TrekCore posted this on Facebook today. Very appropriate

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Old January 17 2014, 10:34 PM   #27
TheSubCommander
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Re: Action hero Picard

I didn't have a problem with Picard being an action hero.

First off, one has to remember TNG was modeled after what was supposed to be Star trek Phase II, with an older, more experienced Captain Kirk. Picard essentially filled that role, and it has been stated in several episodes that Picard in his younger days, was much more Kirk-like. In fact, I have a feeling if there had been a Star Trek Phase II, the way Kirk could have been portrayed, probably wouldn't be too different than how Picard was in TNG: a captain who is more seasoned and mellower, and who learned to use his brain more than his brawn. But, when required, Picard could hold his own.

As for Picard needing help against Soran, well, I say this: no matter how badass you might be, there's always someone who can kick your ass, under hte right circumstances. I guess Soran was just that guy for Picard. Even Jack Bauer get's his ass kicked once in a while.
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Old January 17 2014, 11:08 PM   #28
Armored Saint
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Re: Action hero Picard

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Inappropriate "action" in TNG movies?

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a...tionhd1386.jpg

Nuff said.
Poor Berverly, doing the Security extra because as MD, she's confined to say that Starfleet officers are in incredibly good shape and that Son'a and Ba'ku are the same race. In Chain of Command, it's easy to understand, the infiltration mission needed a very small and specialized team...but in Insurrection...why were they only four to join Picard despite this ship was full of officers loyal to their Captain? Or perhaps Riker could have joined them and let the ship's command to Geordi, who as an experimented officer could have a deeper role than just saying that engineering is on fire.

It's hard to don't see a parallel between this movie of disobedience in leather jacket and the TOS movie of disobedience in leather jacket...especially when the main villain is burned on a collapsing satellite as a Klingon commander on collapsing planet. At least, in FC, Picard personnal confrontation was justified...because it was more personnaly concerned than everyelse.

The Action Picard of Starship Mine is very Picard...he uses his brain and his knowledge of his own ship.
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Old January 18 2014, 12:24 AM   #29
Timewalker
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Re: Action hero Picard

Armored Saint wrote: View Post
Or perhaps Riker could have joined them and let the ship's command to Geordi, who as an experimented officer could have a deeper role than just saying that engineering is on fire.


Might you have meant "experienced"?
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Old January 18 2014, 12:56 AM   #30
JarodRussell
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Re: Action hero Picard

I love the moment where he just punches that terrorist that just beamed right next to him.
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