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Old January 15 2014, 07:20 PM   #31
the G-man
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
the G-man wrote: View Post
I've read about that before. At the same time, just because the creator had an idea for a long running character doesn't mean it was a good idea.

See, e.g., George Lucas and the prequels.
He wasn't a long-running character when they considered doing it...he was only a couple of years old....
As noted here, way back in Superman 45, Jerry Seigel wrote a story where he inexplicably decided that Superman was no also a telepath and a shapeshifter.

It was quickly forgotten. Should even more powers, and especially those powers, have become "a traditional aspect of the mythos in the decades to follow...like the Daily Planet, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, bald Luthor, and Kryptonite"?

I'd say no. I suspect most people would say no.

But it was written by his creator.

Thereby proving that just because the creator came up with the idea doesn't mean it was necessarily a good one.
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Old January 15 2014, 08:29 PM   #32
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

As regards the idea of Lois being "in the loop" diminishing Clark's "uniqueness" as a character?

I say thee nay.
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Old January 15 2014, 10:33 PM   #33
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
The point I was trying to make is that in the movie, he never really was Superman. He was just some dude in a stupid pair of pajamas supposedly masquerading as alien armor (which looked even more silly when his opponents wore actual alien armor), and an off-hand comment here and there mentioning the word "super" in equally silly ways. It was only a Superman movie because we, the audience, knew he was supposed to be Superman, but in the movie, he never really was. Let alone Superman who needed a civilian persona -- whether it was who he really was or not -- in order to escape any fame or persecution he'd suffer when not out saving the world.

He was just some... dude.
You mean just some dude... who can fly, shoot laser beams out of his eyes, lift a bus-load of kids out of the water, battle a bunch of supervillains all by himself, and who saved the entire planet from being destroyed?

Issues with the movie aside, he sure looked and acted a lot like Superman to me.

And he was hardly wearing a pair of pajamas. It was just the regular suit every Kryptonian wore, upon which you could also attach some armor when you went into battle (or other regalia if you were a senator or dignitary of some kind).
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Old January 16 2014, 12:47 AM   #34
The Old Mixer
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

the G-man wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
the G-man wrote: View Post
I've read about that before. At the same time, just because the creator had an idea for a long running character doesn't mean it was a good idea.

See, e.g., George Lucas and the prequels.
He wasn't a long-running character when they considered doing it...he was only a couple of years old....
As noted here, way back in Superman 45, Jerry Seigel wrote a story where he inexplicably decided that Superman was no also a telepath and a shapeshifter.

It was quickly forgotten. Should even more powers, and especially those powers, have become "a traditional aspect of the mythos in the decades to follow...like the Daily Planet, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, bald Luthor, and Kryptonite"?

I'd say no. I suspect most people would say no.

But it was written by his creator.

Thereby proving that just because the creator came up with the idea doesn't mean it was necessarily a good one.
If you'd used that phrasing in the first place, I wouldn't have contested it. But your previous argument involved describing 1940 Superman as a "long running character", which is flat out wrong.

So that temporary bit of business you cite went the way of the Daily Star, George Taylor, Luthor with hair, and other things that didn't stick. That doesn't change the point. Had they let Lois in on the secret that early, and had it stuck, we would now consider Lois knowing the secret to be a traditional aspect of the Superman mythos.

Superman was still very much a young character in development in 1940...many things that are now considered traditional aspects of the mythos were just coming into being or even still years away. Likening developments in the growth of a two-year-old character to Lucas revisiting Star Wars two decades later is apples to oranges.
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Old January 16 2014, 05:25 PM   #35
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

the G-man wrote: View Post
There actually was a valid literary point to Lois not knowing that Clark was Superman.

For about 50 years one of the main themes of Superman if not the main theme was the idea of the secret hero inside of us that others could not see.

Lois was the symbol-the human face-of all of that. She was the woman that Clark loved but whom he could not share his secret with.

It added a certain tragedy to the character. It also harkened back to classic and powerful myths about Gods in disguise.

When Lois knows Clark is Superman all of that is out the window.
SO MUCH this.

It occurs to me though... the way secret identities are falling out of favor (anyone remember Donald Blake) seems to coincide with the erosion of the very concept of a private life in our society. Or is it a coincidence at all?
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Old January 16 2014, 06:43 PM   #36
Silvercrest
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

Like I asked before: WHY CAN'T he share his secret with Lois? I've got no problem with secret identities, but there are serious contradictions with keeping it secret from her. And no concrete, unequivocal reason why he should.
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Old January 16 2014, 06:47 PM   #37
Anwar
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

A beaker full of death wrote: View Post
the G-man wrote: View Post
There actually was a valid literary point to Lois not knowing that Clark was Superman.

For about 50 years one of the main themes of Superman if not the main theme was the idea of the secret hero inside of us that others could not see.

Lois was the symbol-the human face-of all of that. She was the woman that Clark loved but whom he could not share his secret with.

It added a certain tragedy to the character. It also harkened back to classic and powerful myths about Gods in disguise.

When Lois knows Clark is Superman all of that is out the window.
SO MUCH this.

It occurs to me though... the way secret identities are falling out of favor (anyone remember Donald Blake) seems to coincide with the erosion of the very concept of a private life in our society. Or is it a coincidence at all?
It's a coincidence. And the Clark/Lois/Superman triangle ran its course decades ago and nowadays just makes Clark look like a douchebag.

Of course, a lot of those "Gods in Disguise" stories were from eras where those Gods were douchebags themselves...
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Old January 17 2014, 12:50 AM   #38
The Old Mixer
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

Stan the Man started the "no secret identity" trend back in 1961.
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Old January 17 2014, 01:58 AM   #39
davejames
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

I think the secret identity thing made perfect sense for the early comics, when artists drew most men and women the same it was much harder to differentiate characters.

But in live action when you can clearly see the same actor playing both roles, the idea becomes a lot harder to swallow.
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Old January 17 2014, 02:34 AM   #40
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

The cartoon characters don't see cartoon characters, they see realistic people like we see realistic people.
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