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Enterprise The final frontier has a new beginning in this forum!

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Old January 11 2014, 01:48 PM   #16
teacake
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?



SUPERIOR! It should be called Children of Time 2.0. Improvement.
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Old January 11 2014, 04:09 PM   #17
Bad Thoughts
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

Stormfront I and II are like the eighth night of Chanukah. It's the perfunctory ending to something that already given you all the joy it can. Moreover, whatever present you get from it is almost instantly forgettable. IMO, it's not essential. You don't need to know how the TCW ends, only that it does.
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Old January 12 2014, 07:03 AM   #18
Robbiesan
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

I really enjoyed watching Enterprise Proving Ground S03E13 again.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Prov..._%28episode%29

Seeing the military tradition of the Andorians was what made it seem very realistic. The end result was plausible. There would be too much temptation to take the Xindi weapon.

Sure the Enterprise is on a mission of exploration, but they shouldn't be nervous about the military aspects of the crew or other crews. Post-Vietnam a good portion of Hollywood has been reticent to fairly treat military drama. That's a mistake. Not the unabashed patriotic flavor, but a measured response in which we see the warts and honor of military life. I'd like to see more of that.

More duty and dealing with military intrigue and captains working out the ethics of that.
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Old January 14 2014, 03:41 AM   #19
HolidayRomantic
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

teacake wrote: View Post
The best episode of Enterprise is E2.

It is one of the best 3 episodes in all of Star Trek.

BOW BEFORE IT.. and include it in your lists full of drab pineapple cakes!
Wise words.

My personal favorite is "Observer Effect," but "E2" is in my top 5, along with "The Forgotten" and "Twilight." All essential viewing, IMHO. As well as anything with Jeffrey Combs.
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Old January 14 2014, 03:53 AM   #20
Robbiesan
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

Two observations about E2:
1) One could watch this episode apart from the series and it would be as poignant as anything I've seen before.
2) Ms. Blaylock had the great challenge of portraying two very different characters within the same episode, and likely did this to empty space each time and still conveying realistic emotions. Try doing that sometime when reading a part aloud. It's difficult enough to act with another person and find a rhythm and timing and connection. To do it all alone is fantastic and artful.
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Old January 14 2014, 07:50 AM   #21
teacake
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
Stormfront I and II are like the eighth night of Chanukah. It's the perfunctory ending to something that already given you all the joy it can.
But WHAT IF your parents gave you a unicycle one year on the eighth night, to fuck with you? Because while it's true no one else had one of these things and it's expensive and you didn't expect it it is also odd and useless. I mean you're not going to go down the shops on it, are you.
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Old January 14 2014, 05:50 PM   #22
Bad Thoughts
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

teacake wrote: View Post
Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
Stormfront I and II are like the eighth night of Chanukah. It's the perfunctory ending to something that already given you all the joy it can.
But WHAT IF your parents gave you a unicycle one year on the eighth night, to fuck with you? Because while it's true no one else had one of these things and it's expensive and you didn't expect it it is also odd and useless. I mean you're not going to go down the shops on it, are you.
I'll accept that time-traveling Nazis are odd and useless, and the parents who give them to their Jewish children on the eighth night of Chanukah are particularly cruel.

In all seriousness, I learned this year (thanks to the earliness of the holiday, the lateness of end of year sales, and an illness that kept me in bed) that it's more effective to frontload the gifts rather than put all the emphasis on the last night.
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Old January 16 2014, 02:15 PM   #23
Ethros
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

E2 would be somewhere in my Top 10 ENT eps, but for the record my Top 3 would probably be
3. Azati Prime
2. Broken Bow
1. Twilight


I think I once worked out my favourite Top 10 eps of all of Star Trek and Twilight was the one ENT ep to appear
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Old January 16 2014, 02:29 PM   #24
milojthatch
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
MerryJinXmas wrote: View Post
Avro Arrow wrote: View Post

Really? Didn't we all agree that this never happened?
Uh, there were a few who liked the episode.
Riker LARPs in the middle of a political and personal crisis. It's not essential to Enterprise, whether you like it or not.
First, while I admit it had it's flaws, I count myself as a fan that enjoyed "These Are The Voyage..." and appreciate what they were trying to do. In my own personal opinion, I feel that had it been a two hour show instead of a one hour show, it would have been a better show. I felt they were trying to cram too much stuff into such a small amount of time, and the story suffered for it.

Second, besides being the last episode of the show, TATV is essential to the over all arc of the show as it was in part about the founding of the Federation. Seriously, how much more essential can you get than that? Yes, I admit I wish we had actually heard Archer's speech, but again, read my first paragraph.
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Old January 16 2014, 04:29 PM   #25
Ethros
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

^ I always imagine he reused his infamous gazelle speech
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Old January 16 2014, 08:06 PM   #26
Bad Thoughts
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

milojthatch wrote: View Post
Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
MerryJinXmas wrote: View Post
Uh, there were a few who liked the episode.
Riker LARPs in the middle of a political and personal crisis. It's not essential to Enterprise, whether you like it or not.
First, while I admit it had it's flaws, I count myself as a fan that enjoyed "These Are The Voyage..." and appreciate what they were trying to do. In my own personal opinion, I feel that had it been a two hour show instead of a one hour show, it would have been a better show. I felt they were trying to cram too much stuff into such a small amount of time, and the story suffered for it.

Second, besides being the last episode of the show, TATV is essential to the over all arc of the show as it was in part about the founding of the Federation. Seriously, how much more essential can you get than that? Yes, I admit I wish we had actually heard Archer's speech, but again, read my first paragraph.
The episode has major problems, most notably that all the action takes place in the 24th century. What we see is Riker and Troi interacting with photons and forcefields. Moreover, those holographic projections can't be called an accurate representation of what happened in the 22nd century. How could the specific actions and emotions of the individuals be known in such detail? The truth would be that the person who constructed the narrative filled in the thoughts and feelings based on how his or her values and interests. At best, it's an historical novel. At worst, it's fanfic. Whatever Riker could have learned from the program would reflect the writer's values, not Trip's. Finally, the whole episode was in discord with “Pegasus” and with the character of Riker. Escaping into the holodeck? I don't believe it.

That said, I'm not sure that as a conclusion or epilogue to the post 1987 era that TATV does better. Because the action takes place within one time frame and within the constraints of a previous episode, the story lacks breadth. It's largely contained. It reflects an aspect of TNG very well: the ethical obligation of the individual. That value was not as important to TOS, DS9 or VOY as it was in TNG. Indeed, there's nothing of DS9's or Voyager's ideas in TATV, even though ENT borrowed from them.

Moreover, ENT was doing a good job of making those connections on its own. We had almost an entire season of fanwanking—albeit well done—in which major narrative and themes were tied together. Many things related to the previous series had been filled in relating to genetics, mysticism, and humanism (under the guise of the formation of the Federation). There was even a compelling guest appearance from a beloved TNG cast member. Season four was the valentine to fans that TATV was not. Furthermore, it was informative rather than summary.

In the TNG finally, Q tells Picard that “worrying about Commander Riker's career [and] listening to Counselor Troi's pedantic psychobabble” were not enlightening endeavors. That's exactly what TATV gives us.
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Old January 16 2014, 09:39 PM   #27
Robbiesan
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

The last thing that many of us wanted was to see TNG again in this manner, but to bring closure to Enterprise. It was a poor send off and very disappointing. Each show stands on their own merit in the franchise. It was almost as if Enterprise was a stepchild and so lesser loved and unnecessary to conclude it well.

I can remember my mouth dropping and going, "What!' as it aired.And I loved TNG.
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Old January 16 2014, 10:59 PM   #28
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

The irony is that the previous episode finished on a high note, wih lets explore the galaxy together. The problem with TATV is that it was a series fianlé and it wasn't about the ENT characters but about TNG characters. ST has done so called valentine's to the fans before DSN's "Trials and Tribble-ations" and VOY's "Flashback", for me the best of thos has to be DSN's. It seemed as if everyone involved in making it went the extra mile.

I might have ended TATV with showing the actual signing of the Federation Charter, as for archer's speech all you have to do is have the first few lines of it.
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Old January 16 2014, 11:35 PM   #29
teacake
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

To be fair* though Trek kind of sucks at stirring speeches. Maybe we should be glad we only have a few lines.

*to be fair to the speech, not to be fair to TATV which deserves to be shat on from orbit
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Old January 17 2014, 06:15 AM   #30
Avro Arrow
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Re: What are the core and best episodes?

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
Season four was the valentine to fans that TATV was not.
Well said!

MacLeod wrote: View Post
The irony is that the previous episode finished on a high note, wih lets explore the galaxy together.
If ENT had finished its run with Terra Prime, I would have been content. (Well, I still would have wanted season five, but you know what I mean.)

teacake wrote: View Post
To be fair* though Trek kind of sucks at stirring speeches. Maybe we should be glad we only have a few lines.
What, you don't get misty-eyed hearing about the gazelles?

*to be fair to the speech, not to be fair to TATV which deserves to be shat on from orbit
Not from orbit. It would be too easy to miss.
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