RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,734
Posts: 5,432,829
Members: 24,836
Currently online: 469
Newest member: crazycornuts

TrekToday headlines

Episode Four of The Red Shirt Diaries
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Star Trek: The Compendium Review
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Orci Drops Rangers Project
By: T'Bonz on Sep 22

Retro Review: Image in the Sand
By: Michelle on Sep 20

Star Trek: Shadows Of Tyranny Casting Call
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

USS Vengeance And More Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek 3 To Being Shooting Next Year
By: T'Bonz on Sep 19

Trek Messenger Bag
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

Star Trek Live In Concert In Australia
By: T'Bonz on Sep 18

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old January 16 2014, 07:08 AM   #1
Makarov
Commander
 
Action hero Picard

I have to say I don't agree with the general feeling that Picard shouldn't be in action scenes.

You've got a guy whose hobby is violent detective novels on the holodeck, a guy who ran track and other sports at the academy. And someone who took on a bunch of guys when he got stabbed through the heart.

So where does this idea come from that he's just an old man that can't fight? I'm not saying he should be getting in fights all the time but I think saying "kirk = fighter, picard = diplomat" is a disservice to both characters.
Makarov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 07:33 AM   #2
Timewalker
Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady
 
Timewalker's Avatar
 
Location: In many different universes, simultaneously.
Re: Action hero Picard

Not all action heroes have to be like Schwarzenegger. Patrick Stewart did an adequate job.
__________________
"Let's give it to Riker. He'll eat anything!"

For some great Original Series fanfic, check out the Valjiir Continuum!
Timewalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 09:38 AM   #3
Bry_Sinclair
Commodore
 
Bry_Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: Along the border of Talarian space
Re: Action hero Picard

Picard tried to settle disputes with talk first, but was always willing and able to back it up with force if necessary--whether onboard a ship or in person (he wouldn't have been assigned Captain of the E-D if he wasn't up to the job).
__________________
Avatar: Captain Susanna Leijten, U.S.S. Silverfin NCC-4470, Border Service Third Cutter Squadron
Manip by: FltCpt. Bossco (STPMA)
Bry_Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 09:54 AM   #4
JD5000
Commander
 
JD5000's Avatar
 
Location: Jackson, WY
Re: Action hero Picard

Captain Picard has killed WAY more people than Chuck Norris. At least on screen. I wouldn't mess with him.
JD5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 11:49 AM   #5
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: Action hero Picard

Makarov wrote: View Post
So where does this idea come from that he's just an old man that can't fight?
Malcolm McDowell kicked his ass twice in a row. Even two on one, he still kicked his ass.
Tosk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 01:41 PM   #6
desfem79
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Action hero Picard

From what I read/heard, Sir Stewart requested it because he felt it was needed for Picard to grow as a character. and IMO it makes sense, the CO of a ship has to be hands on when required, not just monitor the away team from the bridge, say "make it so", or "engage".

Starship Mine and Captain's Holiday are two of my favourite TNG eps anyhow. And a bad Picard-centric episode is like a snowy day in the Rub Al'Khali, it's never been known to happen lol..
desfem79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 03:15 PM   #7
Tosk
Rear Admiral
 
Tosk's Avatar
 
Location: On the run.
Re: Action hero Picard

desfem79 wrote: View Post
And a bad Picard-centric episode is like a snowy day in the Rub Al'Khali, it's never been known to happen lol..
I dunno man, I find Perfect Mate to be pretty stinky.
Tosk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 03:40 PM   #8
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Action hero Picard

People are like "Picard got his ass kicked by Soran, how come he is an action hero in First Contact and Insurrection"? Yeah well, maybe he learned his lesson between those films?
And then he never got into a fist fight in FC or INS.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 05:16 PM   #9
MikeH92467
Vice Admiral
 
MikeH92467's Avatar
 
Location: Boise, ID
View MikeH92467's Twitter Profile
Re: Action hero Picard

desfem79 wrote: View Post
From what I read/heard, Sir Stewart requested it because he felt it was needed for Picard to grow as a character. and IMO it makes sense, the CO of a ship has to be hands on when required, not just monitor the away team from the bridge, say "make it so", or "engage".

Starship Mine and Captain's Holiday are two of my favourite TNG eps anyhow. And a bad Picard-centric episode is like a snowy day in the Rub Al'Khali, it's never been known to happen lol..
Gene Roddenberry modeled his captains after Horatio Hornblower. Kirk was more action-oriented, Picard more cerebral, but they both had much of Hornblower in them. They were the unquestioned leaders of their ships without any intimidation other than the intimidation generated by such outstanding careers, they could be diplomatic when called for and keep their cool in combat, they could slam down a drink when called and if need be could throw a good punch. (Neither of them won every fight) Of course, they were also gallant and attractive to the ladies. Some elements were stronger than others, but they were all there. I mean Picard had a brilliant battlefield maneuver named after him! While Kirk was able to talk computers to death at least three times that I recall...
MikeH92467 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 07:18 PM   #10
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Action hero Picard

He's a strange duck, this Jean Luc Picard character. Definitely a man of many and eclectic interests. A man who is just as happy to be digging around in the ground on some dusty planet looking for old clay pots, as he is to be indulging in pulpy 1930s detective fiction.
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 07:51 PM   #11
Shat Happens
Captain
 
Shat Happens's Avatar
 
Re: Action hero Picard

It's a hard sell. He should have ordered someone more fit to do those muscle jobs. Like Riker, a character that was created exactly for that, or Worf, the one the audience acclaimed.
Shat Happens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 07:57 PM   #12
jimbotron
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Bay Area, CA
Re: Action hero Picard

I didn't like the switch to Action Picard, though I understand it was a business decision that probably needed to happen.

The enlightened archaeologist diplomat doesn't work in a movie. Riker was designed to be the "Kirk" character, as in the one beaming down, getting into fights, and hooking up with the ladies. However, by the time the movies rolled around, everyone but Picard and Data had become marginalized, so Picard had to become more Kirk-like. Plus Stewart had much more clout and wanted more fun roles.
jimbotron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 08:06 PM   #13
Whoa Nellie
Fleet Captain
 
Whoa Nellie's Avatar
 
Re: Action hero Picard

I must admit I'm quite baffled by the whole debate over 'Erudite Picard' versus 'Action Picard.' I've always seen both those facets combining to create the whole. With Picard, TNG canon has given us a rich, multi-faceted character; one who reads ancient Greek and Latin classics and Shakespeare as well as hard-boiled detective novels. He plays the flute as well as rides horses, fences, and does a little rock climbing. He drinks tea as well as Aldebaran whiskey. He is a diplomat who appears to have a certain degree of special ops training. Like the TOS episode "The Enemy Within" did with Kirk's character, TNG's episode "Tapestry" does a beautiful job of showing that it takes both the erudite and well as the "Hell bent for leather" ensign who was stabbed through the heart in a barroom brawl facets to make Picard the flagship captain. Picard is the erudite who can rise to the role of action hero when the situation requires.

As far as being the 'muscle,' how many of you guys are built like this?



Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
__________________
Recipient of the 2006 Alara Rogers ASC Award for Best Author Overall.
"I personally like to think Picard and Vash had a very active sex life. I can't believe Picard just read Shakespeare up there in his room all those years." Patrick Stewart.
Whoa Nellie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 16 2014, 08:32 PM   #14
Cyke101
Rear Admiral
 
Cyke101's Avatar
 
Re: Action hero Picard

I suppose I wouldn't have as big a problem with Action Picard had he stormed the Scimitar with a bunch of red shirts, or at least a semi-capable Away Team. As it is, he singlehandedly defeated a bridge full of soldiers who managed to kill the Romulan Senate.

There's room for an Action Picard, don't get me wrong. The limits set to him vs. the Borg Queen were at least story based, and all he did was stall (therefore, using his wits) and swung on a cable. But the limitations in Nemesis just felt so convenient -- only one person can beam over, only one person can beam back, he *has8 to fight his clone, et all. As well, if one movie had an Action Picard and another movie had Picard using his wits and diplomacy to try and solve a cosmic mystery (which was more his cup of tea in TNG), then there'd be a bit of balance.
__________________
“You do not use science in order to prove yourself right, you use science in order to become right.”
Cyke101 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old January 17 2014, 03:44 AM   #15
Lance
Commodore
 
Lance's Avatar
 
Location: The Enterprise's Restroom
Re: Action hero Picard

Cyke101 wrote:
There's room for an Action Picard, don't get me wrong. The limits set to him vs. the Borg Queen were at least story based, and all he did was stall (therefore, using his wits) and swung on a cable. But the limitations in Nemesis just felt so convenient -- only one person can beam over, only one person can beam back, he *has* to fight his clone, et all. As well, if one movie had an Action Picard and another movie had Picard using his wits and diplomacy to try and solve a cosmic mystery (which was more his cup of tea in TNG), then there'd be a bit of balance.
That's the thing that is lacking: the variety of the character. I mean, Action Picard shown up on TV from time to time as well (most notably in "Starship Mine"), but it was merely one part of a much more fully rounded character. We didn't see him beating up on the bad guys EVERY single week for 26 weeks in a row.

By contrast, in the TNG movies, that 'action movie' guy shows up for three movies in a row, so by NEMESIS we're all just like: "Is he compensating for something? What's the deal here?".
Lance is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:24 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.