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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

View Poll Results: Do fans want the prime timeline back?
I'm a fan and I want the Prime timeline back. 190 56.05%
I'm a fan and I don't want the Prime timeline back. 57 16.81%
I'm a fan and wouldn't mind if it came back. 38 11.21%
I don't care, just give me Trek! 48 14.16%
I don't know. 6 1.77%
Voters: 339. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 9 2014, 04:28 AM   #991
Maurice
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Hill Street Blues was doing A, B and C plots virtually every episode from day one, with each major plot arcing across three subsequent episodes so if you tuned in on any given week you'd catch the start of one new plot, the middle or another, and the finish of a third. THAT was innovative and pre-TNG. TNG was a throwback in many ways, so to claim it was a "first in its genre" is truly damning with faint praise.
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Old January 12 2014, 02:26 PM   #992
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

DonIago wrote: View Post
Well, if Trek '09 had been the abomination that some people seem to consider it to be...

But as far as the general public was concerned it wasn't, and as far as the Trek fanbase is concerned, it's my opinion they should be grateful that something happened to revive interest in the franchise even if they didn't care for the precise form that it took.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: *IF* JJ-Trek is the only way to get new "Star Trek," then I'd rather we never see another new film or show again. Just my feeling, I doubt I'm alone.

If Trek comes back, it should be the Prime Universe. Gene and Rick set the dang thing up so wonderfully, and it was THAT version I became a fan of. I realize that the studio wants non-fans to pay ticket prices to see the newest Star Trek film, but frankly, I doubt most of them care. It's fans that keep this franchise going and it's fans that spend billions of dollars each year on Star Trek merchandise and tickets to attend Star Trek conventions, not the general public.

The general public will watch (at best) a new Star Trek film once, maybe twice if they liked it enough in the theater, and possibly buy the film on DVD or Blu-ray and that is as far as it will ever go. They would re-buy the film six years down the road to get the new extras, they won't buy the comic books or the video games or action figures, they won't dress up and buy all the things needed to make their costume look awesome, they won't go to Star Trek Conversions or theme park-like attractions (when they exist). They won't invest in the franchise the way real fans do. As far as I can see, the current powers that be at the studios doesn't get any of this. And that is why I don't think Star Trek has much of a future right now. Just a hollow shell of it's once awesome self.
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Old January 12 2014, 05:08 PM   #993
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

There is a new film coming out in 2016, with no indication that it will be the last Abrams film. And if Trek is rebooted again after that which it likely will be, it will be changed even more.
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Old January 12 2014, 07:11 PM   #994
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

milojthatch wrote: View Post
It's fans that keep this franchise going
Until they all die off or move on.

Hence why Nemesis bombed and Enterprise was cancelled there weren't enough fans to keep Trek going.
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Old January 13 2014, 01:48 AM   #995
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

milojthatch wrote: View Post
It's fans that keep this franchise going and it's fans that spend billions of dollars each year on Star Trek merchandise and tickets to attend Star Trek conventions, not the general public.
The figures I've read indicate that CBS makes about $20 million a year from original series merchandise (presumably, each successive spin-off draws in a little less than the show before it). If the franchise ever made "billions of dollars" from merchandise and convention sales, those days were over long ago. Given the age of the fan base we're talking about, continuing to target them isn't the greatest long-term strategy.

Also, considering the bump in sales that have occurred for "Prime" Trek on home video upon the theatrical and home video releases of both Bad Robot films, I don't think your complaints about the "real fans" versus the (fake?) fans have much merit.
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Old January 13 2014, 03:21 AM   #996
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Hartzilla2007 wrote:
Hence why Nemesis bombed and Enterprise was cancelled there weren't enough fans to keep Trek going.
Actually, the lesson of Nemesis and Enterprise is that alienating the fans is bad. They're potentially a goldmine -- the fandom-powered franchise goes well beyond TOS merch -- but only the very hardest-core of them will turn out for just anything with the Trek brand slapped on it.
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Old January 13 2014, 04:12 AM   #997
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

^ 33 of our voters so far, or as I like to call them, the "I don't care, just give me Trek!" crowd.
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Old January 15 2014, 12:38 AM   #998
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BillJ wrote: View Post
I'd add in several things from The Wrath of Khan: Terrell's suicide, the Ceti eel coming out of Chekov's ear and one of the Enterprise crew being turned into a human torch when Reliant hits it in the torpedo bay.
Which was taken by Abrams and used in the battle scene with the Kelvin and the Narada at the beginning of the 2009 movie, albeit with a sucking out of the crew-member into outer space this time.
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Old January 15 2014, 01:18 AM   #999
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Are the two scenes really that similar? Brings to mind the poor guy who gets sucked out the front of the bridge in Star Trek: Nemesis than it does anything in TWOK.
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Old January 15 2014, 01:33 AM   #1000
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I'd add in several things from The Wrath of Khan: Terrell's suicide, the Ceti eel coming out of Chekov's ear and one of the Enterprise crew being turned into a human torch when Reliant hits it in the torpedo bay.
Which was taken by Abrams and used in the battle scene with the Kelvin and the Narada at the beginning of the 2009 movie, albeit with a sucking out of the crew-member into outer space this time.
Oh please. The explosion and someone catching on fire is a common action movie trope.
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Old January 15 2014, 01:33 AM   #1001
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

BigJake wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote:
Hence why Nemesis bombed and Enterprise was cancelled there weren't enough fans to keep Trek going.
Actually, the lesson of Nemesis and Enterprise is that alienating the fans is bad. They're potentially a goldmine -- the fandom-powered franchise goes well beyond TOS merch -- but only the very hardest-core of them will turn out for just anything with the Trek brand slapped on it.
(We probably shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, especially when it's unqualified, the word "fan" can mean different things to different people, and in different contexts.)

If the only criterion for being a fan is to tune into a show regularly, then it's tautological to say that alienating its fans is bad for show. I think it's a good point that when your steady audience is small and dwindling, as ENT's was, your regular viewers aren't enough to keep things going. Attracting new blood to your viewership is key.

Recapturing the TNG audience was something that ENT repeatedly tried to do but failed at. Ergo, especially in hindsight, it shouldn't have attempted to do that at all, at least not in the way it did. What it should have tried was something completely different, in an effort to attract new fans that were never regular viewers of TNG and/or to appeal to TNG's fans without boring the fuck out of them with things they'd basically already seen.
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Old January 15 2014, 04:44 AM   #1002
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Recapturing the TNG audience was something that ENT repeatedly tried to do but failed at. Ergo, especially in hindsight, it shouldn't have attempted to do that at all, at least not in the way it did.
Yeah, I'd say that there was a mistaken assumption going on that the TNG audience just wanted warmed-over TNG tropes served up with each subsequent outing -- rather than just good storytelling -- an assumption that actually led much of that audience to tune out. (It's always "safer" to play to nostalgia because nostalgia has numbers to back it up -- potentially meaningless numbers, but still, numbers -- and any new idea doesn't.)
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Old January 15 2014, 05:05 AM   #1003
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote:
Hence why Nemesis bombed and Enterprise was cancelled there weren't enough fans to keep Trek going.
Actually, the lesson of Nemesis and Enterprise is that alienating the fans is bad. They're potentially a goldmine -- the fandom-powered franchise goes well beyond TOS merch -- but only the very hardest-core of them will turn out for just anything with the Trek brand slapped on it.
(We probably shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, especially when it's unqualified, the word "fan" can mean different things to different people, and in different contexts.)
The thing is, people try to set up this binary either/or dichotomy between "the fans" and "the non-fans," whereas, in real life, it's a spectrum with extremes at either end and the vast majority of viewing audience spread out along the middle.

At one end, you have the folks who don't "get" STAR TREK and never will. Chances are, they can't tell the difference between "Dr. Spock" and Darth Vader.

At the other end, you have us hardcore, convention-going, bbs-posting, merchandise-collecting super-fans who have seen every single movie and TV episode and can cite chapter and verse on the Organian Peace Treaty. Contrary to conventional wisdom, we are not the "core audience." We are the extremes at one end of the spectrum.

The vast majority of Trek fans consists of people who, to varying degrees, have enjoyed some amount of Star Trek over the years and have a certain affection for their favorite Trek series and characters. They've seen the more popular movies, will pick up a Hallmark ornament or paperback novel if the mood strikes them, and certainly know who Kirk and Picard are, but maybe not Gul Dukat or Robert April . . .

It's the casual fans, along the middle of the spectrum, that mean the difference between a flop and a hit. And they're the audience you mostly need to target.
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Old January 15 2014, 07:26 AM   #1004
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
The thing is, people try to set up this binary either/or dichotomy between "the fans" and "the non-fans," whereas, in real life, it's a spectrum with extremes at either end and the vast majority of viewing audience spread out along the middle.

At one end, you have the folks who don't "get" STAR TREK and never will. Chances are, they can't tell the difference between "Dr. Spock" and Darth Vader.

At the other end, you have us hardcore, convention-going, bbs-posting, merchandise-collecting super-fans who have seen every single movie and TV episode and can cite chapter and verse on the Organian Peace Treaty. Contrary to conventional wisdom, we are not the "core audience." We are the extremes at one end of the spectrum.

The vast majority of Trek fans consists of people who, to varying degrees, have enjoyed some amount of Star Trek over the years and have a certain affection for their favorite Trek series and characters. They've seen the more popular movies, will pick up a Hallmark ornament or paperback novel if the mood strikes them, and certainly know who Kirk and Picard are, but maybe not Gul Dukat or Robert April . . .

It's the casual fans, along the middle of the spectrum, that mean the difference between a flop and a hit. And they're the audience you mostly need to target.
All well put, but truth be told, as opposed to people generally, mainly it's only some of us hardcore fans whom I've seen pushing the binary either/or dichotomy between "the fans" and "the non-fans," a dichotomy that intrinsically feeds an us versus them mentality.

I think it was easy for hardcore fans in the 1970's to convince ourselves that we were the keepers of Star Trek's flames, but it was really nearsighted not to see that Star Trek's return and subsequent incarnations could never be solely for our consumption.

To put it into personal perspective, I'd say that my first taste of the divergence between what I wanted in Star Trek versus what had popular appeal came with the release of The Voyage Home.
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Old January 15 2014, 03:16 PM   #1005
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
(We probably shouldn't lose sight of the fact that, especially when it's unqualified, the word "fan" can mean different things to different people, and in different contexts.) ...
I tried to hit that in the opening post. That issue was touched on in the previous (part 1) thread where people were claiming they were more "fan" then the other guy. I tried to blanket the term. This poll is for the most hardcore of fans to the new fans who only saw a movie or two.
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