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Old January 12 2014, 05:22 AM   #31
Robbiesan
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Re: I Like Abrams

Back when Dilbert was popular, and downsizings were occuring in every corporation, then that comic parroted the "you will be assimilated" line over and over. It's certainly appropriate to consider the corporations the Borg.

Regarding short runs of television, I've mentioned how HBO could do Star Trek well with ten or twelve episodes. That would be perfect. We'd probably see at least eight good episodes a year this way.

The BBC often has three or six episode television series and these are frequently done well.

I'm going through withdrawal because it's been so long since Star Trek was on television now. The longer it's gone, the harder it is to bring it back. And think how each time there have been letter writing campaigns to keep it on. That's definitely influencing the fact that there isn't a series right now.
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Old January 12 2014, 11:05 AM   #32
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: I Like Abrams

teacake wrote: View Post
Those things are ugly. How am I suppose to ship a Kre-o Khan with my Nu Kirk figure from XI?
Love transcends all boundaries. Just say Khan fell through this black hole:
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Old January 12 2014, 12:03 PM   #33
2takesfrakes
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Re: I Like Abrams

I like J.J. Abrams, too, USS Triumphant! Whether he knew anything about STAR TREK going in, whether he was a fan, or not ... none of that's important. What is important is that he wanted to make a STAR TREK movie that was entertaining. And this he has in common with everyone from Roddenberry, to Bennett, to Nimoy, to Frakes ... all down the line, that's all anyone involved in STAR TREK has wanted to do. Not all, or even many, of these attempts were entirely successfull, either. Yet, J.J. Abrams was and continues to be ...

That's someone I very much want to have hold the reins of this beloved franchise! And he did everything he could to soften the blow of a reboot, including - and especially - putting it in its own "timeline." But, at some point, this director had to make it his own and he did that ... again, mind you, successfully! You know, I could be mistaken, but didn't STAR TREK '09 even win an Oscar for effects? STAR TREK winning an OSCAR?! Wow, the cartoon was certainly touting that Emmy for decades, and not even Nick Meyer's revered Wrath of Khan got STAR TREK an Oscar. STAR TREK's hitched its wagon to a star, so yeah ... I like Abrams.
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Old January 12 2014, 09:27 PM   #34
SpocksLeftEar
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Re: I Like Abrams

Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
While I realize that you're joking, please keep the personal commentary about other posters out of the thread.
Two things
- I wasn't joking
- I do believe that I read at least one personal commentary somewhere in the 130,000+ threads. Maybe even more than one. And I couldn't find any post like the one I just got.
Would you care to explain this?
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Old January 13 2014, 09:42 AM   #35
milojthatch
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Re: I Like Abrams

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
I was just reading someone saying something about him in the Star Trek Movies XI+ forum, and I'm just saying: I like the guy. I don't know him personally, but during the filming of Star Trek 09, he was roaming around the set in an Infocom shirt. I freakin' love Zork and the other old Infocom games! So, until given a direct reason for it not to be true, we're cool.

Why do I mention this? Because I feel like I see a LOT of comments - and I've almost certainly been guilty of this, myself, regarding Frakes and B & B - where people have clearly just allowed themselves to turn these people into the stupidest, most evil and poorly intentioned people EVER. They can't just be people who are trying to make the best entertainment they can and live their lives, and are just misguided or bad at it, or bad at doing it in a way that makes all of us happy. No, instead, THEY ARE RAPING OUR BELOVED HOBBY!!!1!!one!

It is more fun, perhaps, to demonize people who do things we don't like, but, it is also pretty much directly against the hopeful vision for mankind's future that Roddenberry and others have tried to show us. An impulse that we need to get past in each of us if we're ever going to achieve anything close to it.

And for the record, while I want JANEWAY cycled through the airlock, I quite like Kate Mulgrew, too.
It's just my opinion, but there is literally nothing JJ Abrams has made tv/film wise that I think is actually any good. I felt that way before JJ-Trek and the feeling has only intensified since. I think the man is a hack trying a little too hard to be the new Steven Spielberg.

That said, I don't know the man personally and have never met him, so I try not to comment on JJ Abrams the man and keep my comments strictly to JJ Abrams the Hollywood director/producer/writer. I do know he has a family, and from what I've heard, he tries to be a good husband and father, so if that is true, then I have to respect him for that.

As for Berman and Braga, while I agree that some of their stories have been kind of meh, over all, I'll defend them. Unlike a lot of "fans," I don't feel the so called down fall of Star Trek was because of them. If anything, I feel they did the best they could to keep it together for as long as they could. I firmly put the blame on the executives at the studio. They were the one who told Berman "Make us a new show or we get someone else to do it" not once, but twice. They were the ones who insisted on Enterprise having something futuristic on the show that lead to the stupid Temporal Cold War. They were the ones who fired Berman and hired Abrams and Orci.

The fact is Berman was hand picked by Roddenberry to keep the Star Trek legacy going and Abrams wasn't. It really is that simple for me.
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Old January 13 2014, 10:09 AM   #36
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Re: I Like Abrams

milojthatch wrote: View Post
...

The fact is Berman was hand picked by Roddenberry to keep the Star Trek legacy going and Abrams wasn't. It really is that simple for me.
To be fair, Gene was kind of dead when J.J. stepped into the picture.
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Old January 13 2014, 10:37 AM   #37
SpocksLeftEar
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Re: I Like Abrams

J. Allen wrote: View Post
milojthatch wrote: View Post
...

The fact is Berman was hand picked by Roddenberry to keep the Star Trek legacy going and Abrams wasn't. It really is that simple for me.
To be fair, Gene was kind of dead when J.J. stepped into the picture.
But Berman could have picked a successor who wouldn't have come up with such a bunch of dumb ideas
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Old January 13 2014, 11:44 AM   #38
Robert Comsol
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Re: I Like Abrams

J. Allen wrote: View Post
I expect the next Star Wars to be so damned good, that after the movie, I'll smoke a cigarette.
Then, let's just hope he understands he is doing a sequel and not - I repeat NOT - a reboot.

Bob
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Old January 13 2014, 11:51 AM   #39
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: I Like Abrams

Gene Roddenberry was, by many accounts, a rather unpleasant person. He also took credit for a LOT in Trek which had nothing to do with him. "What Gene would have wanted" is usually thrown around by fans completely ignorant of the man.
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Old January 13 2014, 02:13 PM   #40
Robert Comsol
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Re: I Like Abrams

But from various interviews and anecdotes one red thread of what Gene Roddenberry actually wanted becomes clear: Less militaristic overtunes and more scientific exploration.

That was one of his criticisms of Franz Joseph's Technical Manual and one of his criticisms of how Nick Meyer handled things in TWOK (IIRC).

I think TNG is a good showcase of his philosophy against which to measure other Trek incarnations, IMHO.

Bob
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Old January 13 2014, 04:33 PM   #41
Misfit Toy
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Re: I Like Abrams

SpocksLeftEar wrote: View Post
Misfit Toy wrote: View Post
While I realize that you're joking, please keep the personal commentary about other posters out of the thread.
Two things
- I wasn't joking
- I do believe that I read at least one personal commentary somewhere in the 130,000+ threads. Maybe even more than one. And I couldn't find any post like the one I just got.
Would you care to explain this?
Fine. Since you weren't joking, then your comment was trolling. You have received an infraction for same. Keep your opinions about other poster's souls to yourself. Comments regarding this action may be made via PM.
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Old January 13 2014, 05:39 PM   #42
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: I Like Abrams

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
But from various interviews and anecdotes one red thread of what Gene Roddenberry actually wanted becomes clear: Less militaristic overtunes and more scientific exploration.

That was one of his criticisms of Franz Joseph's Technical Manual and one of his criticisms of how Nick Meyer handled things in TWOK (IIRC).

I think TNG is a good showcase of his philosophy against which to measure other Trek incarnations, IMHO.

Bob
Each to their own - I much prefer the TOS that actually was, with imperfect humans, conflict, money and a Kirk who called himself a soldier to the latter-day Roddenberry's vision of it. Roddenberry disliked the racism of STVI, believing Starfleet officers to be evolved beyond it. It often seemed to me that in TNG they were going out of their way to make the characters as unrelatable as possible. Taking the humanity out of the human adventure, so to speak.
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Old January 13 2014, 09:09 PM   #43
Kelthaz
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Re: I Like Abrams

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
But from various interviews and anecdotes one red thread of what Gene Roddenberry actually wanted becomes clear: Less militaristic overtunes and more scientific exploration.

That was one of his criticisms of Franz Joseph's Technical Manual and one of his criticisms of how Nick Meyer handled things in TWOK (IIRC).

I think TNG is a good showcase of his philosophy against which to measure other Trek incarnations, IMHO.

Bob
Each to their own - I much prefer the TOS that actually was, with imperfect humans, conflict, money and a Kirk who called himself a soldier to the latter-day Roddenberry's vision of it. Roddenberry disliked the racism of STVI, believing Starfleet officers to be evolved beyond it. It often seemed to me that in TNG they were going out of their way to make the characters as unrelatable as possible. Taking the humanity out of the human adventure, so to speak.
And I'm right in the middle. I want to watch Star Trek to see an optimistic, less militarized future where humans are more apt to solve their problems with words, but I don't want to go the extremes of TNG where people stop acting like humans. Deep Space Nine was the perfect middle ground.
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Old January 13 2014, 09:33 PM   #44
BigJake
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Re: I Like Abrams

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
Why do I mention this? Because I feel like I see a LOT of comments. . . where people have clearly just allowed themselves to turn these people into the stupidest, most evil and poorly intentioned people EVER.
I feel like I see a lot of people who are prone to tendentiously reading comments this way that make no personal claims about Abrams or anyone else.

For example, say my name were Devin Faraci and this was how I felt about Star Trek: Into Darkness:

The infamous purveyor of Hatorade, Devin Faraci wrote:
Star Trek Into Darkness brought back both the cast who made the first film live and the script flaws that almost sank it, except this time the script flaws were not going to get upstaged. Into Darkness is dumb, it's complicated for no reason, it features reveals that are meaningless to the plot and it pisses away Star Trek's most name-brand villain in a plotline that disrespects hardcore fans while being meaningless to the coveted new audience. Star Trek Into Darkness is a movie so bad that it fails on almost every conceivable level, including mewling fan service. This isn't the worst film of the year - The Delivery Man and The Secret Life of Walter Mitty are even worse, believe it or not - but it's without a doubt the film that squanders the most talent, money and good will.
Now, even if my feelings about it were that strong (and I'm not laying claim to Devin's opinions word-for-word, I actually happen to think STiD is the better of the two AbramsTrek films), still: notice how all those things said there are about the movie and not about claiming that Abrams rapes kittens and steals Meals-on-Wheels money from sweet old grannies?

It's still just an opinion about a film, not an opinion about whether you should hang out and have a beer with the filmmaker. Nor even by extension an opinion about what sort of person you must be for liking such a film.

More people should get a real handle on that kind of distinction.

[FWIW, I have no particular personal opinions about J.J. Abrams, on account of I make a point of trying to avoiding speculating in this way about people I don't know. As a filmmaker and television producer I would say his work seems a very mixed bag and much overrated -- though Cloverfield is solidly in the plus column for me and Super 8 was pretty good.]
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Old January 13 2014, 11:22 PM   #45
USS Triumphant
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Re: I Like Abrams

BigJake wrote: View Post
More people should get a real handle on that kind of distinction.
I have one, and while you're correct that *most* comments are about the material, I have definitely seen more than a few that make rude assumptions about the people involved, themselves. Enough that it prompted me to start this thread, which, strangely enough, has seen comments that are mostly about how people don't completely hate the material, rather than about the sort of comments I was referring to in the first place. But I'm not bothered - I said what I wanted to say, and people are free to take the conversation in whatever direction they desire from there.
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