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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old January 13 2014, 03:14 AM   #1
Mr Light
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Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

I just watched Generations again for the first time in several years.

And, as always, this strikes me as the worst possible way to do a TOS / TNG crossover.

Kirk "dies" and goes into limbo and Picard finds him in limbo and takes him out to fight a dude on a bridge and he immediately gets killed? Are you kidding me?!

Only Picard ever gets to meet him, and he dies five minutes after they meet? Kirk never gets to see the Ent-D?

Why not do the easy and obvious and satisfying thing? One ship travels in time and meets the other? And they have to team up against some big bad?

I just read that Kelley couldn't be in it for health reasons, and Nimoy refused to be in it because his part was a joke. But Nimoy's role was basically what Scotty's was in the film as is. But surely you could just take whoever you could for the TOS Enterprise crew.

And to kill Kirk off in such a punk way... *shakes head*

They should have just had the Ent-D travel back in time to meet the Ent-A. And, y'know, NOT kill Kirk.

I haven't read Shatner's The Return novel in some time, but I recall it was quite entertaining and basically the multi-series crossover that the movie should have been.

Hell, you could have done a variation of First Contact, with the Borg traveling back in time to kill Kirk or something and the Ent-D following them through.

And if you absolutely HAVE to kill Kirk off, at least let him do it at the helm of his ship on a kamikaze run saving the day...
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Old January 13 2014, 03:55 AM   #2
Lance
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

More sensible to have had the Enterprise D itself find Kirk floating around in space somewhere?

The reality is that the whole Nexus scenario is a dead end plot-wise. Once you conceive of this mystical mumbo-jumbo explanation for crossing the generations, then basically it railroads you into writing the script in a specific way. Especially when the edict is to give the lion's share of plot to the TNG crew. Kirk's entire presence in the final section of the movie really comes across as something of an after thought.
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Old January 13 2014, 10:47 AM   #3
SpocksLeftEar
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

The problem with the Nexus is that is allows a person to exit whereever and whenever it wants. Why go to this stupid planet five minutes before Soran launches the missile?
Why not go back in time long before anything can happen?
(This of course is a problem that pops up in lots of movies, but why not avoid it once in a while?)
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Old January 13 2014, 11:01 AM   #4
Robert Comsol
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

Mr Light wrote: View Post
And to kill Kirk off in such a punk way... *shakes head*
In the light of the recent skiing accident of former Formula One World Champion Michael Schumacher it would seem that in real life Death knocks at your door in a situation where you least expect it. In this regard the movie felt more real than usual.

Mr Light wrote: View Post
And if you absolutely HAVE to kill Kirk off, at least let him do it at the helm of his ship on a kamikaze run saving the day...
Well, he did something along those lines earlier aboard the Enterprise-B (though I think Scotty would have been the one better qualified for the job).

Theoretically, having Kirk disable mechanical components of Soran's rocket and being killed in the process would have been a better way to go for him, but it would have looked somewhat derivative considering his earlier repair job in the movie.

Bob
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Old January 13 2014, 01:30 PM   #5
Mr Light
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

I'm saying the entire fundamental plotline is a bad idea, though. Time to throw the baby out with the bathwater
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Old January 13 2014, 01:56 PM   #6
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

Whether GEN is the worst possible crossover idea depends upon whether you think it's a good idea to take a giant dump on TOS.

I'd rather have had Kirk step in front of a blaster beam to save Picard.

Also, Kirk's last words leaned on the fourth wall too much. We know Shatner had fun being Kirk, but more likely than blabbering about having fun, Kirk would have thanked Picard for getting him out of the Nexus so he could make a difference.
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Old January 13 2014, 01:58 PM   #7
Mr Light
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

his last words were "oh my!"
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Old January 13 2014, 02:00 PM   #8
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

Mr Light wrote: View Post
his last words were "oh my!"
His last two words were, "Oh my!"

His last five words were, "It was fun. Oh my!"

Yes?
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Old January 13 2014, 02:10 PM   #9
Mr Light
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

yeah I was just being a nit

OMG! I just realized! Kirk's final words were a George Takei quote!!!
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Old January 13 2014, 02:21 PM   #10
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Whether GEN is the worst possible crossover idea depends upon whether you think it's a good idea to take a giant dump on TOS.

I'd rather have had Kirk step in front of a blaster beam to save Picard.

Also, Kirk's last words leaned on the fourth wall too much. We know Shatner had fun being Kirk, but more likely than blabbering about having fun, Kirk would have thanked Picard for getting him out of the Nexus so he could make a difference.
Thank Picard, thank Picard... for taking Kirk away from
Paradise, from the lost love he was constantly talking about in TOS and the TOS movies, from the life in a cabin making eggs and riding horses that Shatner (I mean Kirk) really wanted.
Kirk didn't really want to make a difference, or otherwise that would have been his greatest desire, his experience in the Nexus for 80 years. Nope he wanted to live in a cabin with whatshername. If not the Nexus was just a lie and didn't provide someone with their greatest desires.
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Old January 13 2014, 02:28 PM   #11
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Whether GEN is the worst possible crossover idea depends upon whether you think it's a good idea to take a giant dump on TOS.

I'd rather have had Kirk step in front of a blaster beam to save Picard.

Also, Kirk's last words leaned on the fourth wall too much. We know Shatner had fun being Kirk, but more likely than blabbering about having fun, Kirk would have thanked Picard for getting him out of the Nexus so he could make a difference.
Thank Picard, thank Picard... for taking Kirk away from
Paradise, from the lost love he was constantly talking about in TOS and the TOS movies, from the life in a cabin making eggs and riding horses that Shatner (I mean Kirk) really wanted.
Kirk didn't really want to make a difference, or otherwise that would have been his greatest desire, his experience in the Nexus for 80 years. Nope he wanted to live in a cabin with whatshername. If not the Nexus was just a lie and didn't provide someone with their greatest desires.
Uh-huh.
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Old January 13 2014, 02:52 PM   #12
Khan 2.0
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

kirks nexus wouldve involved carol Marcus at home (couldve had the actress reprise the role or couldve just been mentioned like whatshername. Plus David shouldve been mentioned in some capacity) Then going to the empty Enterprise bridge NCC 1701 refit, perhaps reenacting the countdown from Trek III only this time he aborts...(which wouldve allowed for Picard to be in a original series movie environment like one would expect to see if Picard is in kirks nexus!)

Then Picard convinces kirk to go back with him to the rock planet to defeat the villain..then they both appear on sha ka ree in front of blue light god and kirk goes 'yeah maybe not this one'...and Picard is like 'well actually where we're supposed to be going is almost as bad..'

Last edited by Khan 2.0; January 13 2014 at 03:12 PM.
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Old January 13 2014, 02:56 PM   #13
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Whether GEN is the worst possible crossover idea depends upon whether you think it's a good idea to take a giant dump on TOS.

I'd rather have had Kirk step in front of a blaster beam to save Picard.

Also, Kirk's last words leaned on the fourth wall too much. We know Shatner had fun being Kirk, but more likely than blabbering about having fun, Kirk would have thanked Picard for getting him out of the Nexus so he could make a difference.
Thank Picard, thank Picard... for taking Kirk away from
Paradise, from the lost love he was constantly talking about in TOS and the TOS movies, from the life in a cabin making eggs and riding horses that Shatner (I mean Kirk) really wanted.
Kirk didn't really want to make a difference, or otherwise that would have been his greatest desire, his experience in the Nexus for 80 years. Nope he wanted to live in a cabin with whatshername. If not the Nexus was just a lie and didn't provide someone with their greatest desires.
Uh-huh.
I'm sorry.
I could rant on for pages about GEN. Its like an addiction that I've been trying to stop.
I'm stopping now. Honestly. Unless someone says how good GEN is. OK I better stop reading this thread.

Back onto topic, yes I agree that GEN was a bad crossover idea. Unless you really hate TOS and maybe Picard and all he stands for.
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Old January 13 2014, 03:07 PM   #14
BoredShipCapt'n
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post

I'd rather have had Kirk step in front of a blaster beam to save Picard.
A blaster beam?




Worst Shatner death scene ever, in this film. Terribly unsatisfying. He didn't get to overact. Just contrast with his death scenes on The Six Million Dollar Man and The Fugitive.
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Old January 13 2014, 03:24 PM   #15
Robert Comsol
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Re: Generations: Worst Possible Crossover Idea?

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
I could rant on for pages about GEN. Its like an addiction that I've been trying to stop.
I'm stopping now. Honestly. Unless someone says how good GEN is.
Well, I'd say it's a great example of continuity. Here's the decisive GEN scene:

PICARD: All right, I know exactly where I want to go. The mountaintop on Veridian Three, just before Soran destroyed the star. I have to stop it. But I need help. Now, if you were to come back with me. Together, we c...
GUINAN: I can't leave here. I'm there already, remember? But I bet I know someone who can.

Whether it's actually Guinan or Picard's subconscious is not relevant, but I'd say one of the few people with enough integrity to be willing to leave the Nexus was Kirk all along, considering his commendable attitude in ST V:

KIRK: To be brainwashed by this con man?
McCOY: I was wrong. This 'con man' took away my pain!
KIRK: Dammit, Bones, you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with the wave of a magic wand. They're things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. ...If we lose them, we lose ourselves. I don't want my pain taken away. I need my pain.


Apparently, the great James Tiberius Kirk was among the few who'd never swap reality for a fantasy or illusion, so it made quite some sense that Guinan (or Picard's subconscious) was thinking of him.

Bob
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