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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old December 25 2013, 11:24 PM   #31
Therin of Andor
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

Lance wrote: View Post
He still had an eye on maybe reviving the Phase II concept, and was largely working towards that goal rather than simply trying to recapture something he'd already done ten years before.
Most definitely. And when I interviewed Billy Van Zandt (the alien bridge ensign) in 1984, he said that the mood amongst the two-line extras was often that they expected/assumed/hoped that the movie would still spin-off into something ongoing/regular and they'd all get invited back.

I remember being surprised at how many Epsilon Nine costumes were auctioned off in the It's a Wrap! eBay auctions. Someone definitely funneled some wardrobe finances into making far more costumes that were ever needed for a few brief scenes, and many went unused. They could have outfitted a space station-based TV series for several years with all the spare uniforms they made. I'm thinking that there were plans to thwart the perils of a TV-sized budget for a future version of "Phase II" (telemovies, TV episodes, movies) by "stocking up" on useful things such as alien ambassador's robes and generic space station uniforms.

Also remember that, among original plans for a Trek movie, were ideas such as casting Paul Newman and Robert Redford as Kirk and Spock. The idea that TMP would be a cast-reunion event came much later.
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Old December 26 2013, 01:41 AM   #32
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

Damn, we have to prepare a slingshot. Newman would have been so great in Star Trek!

I'm from a generation born after TMP. Many of us don't really appreciate this looooooong and ugly movie and find TWOK well better.

For me, TWOK is the real start. TMP is more a kind of cute reunion. Hey look, I'm now admiral and I don't really like it, so I decided to kick the kid from my old chair and to interrupt Bones's disco solo career. It's really TWOK that established the universe of TOS movies where the Enterprise and her crew are both aging.
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Old December 26 2013, 02:48 AM   #33
trevanian
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

redford: the klingons are right behind us, we've got no place to go.

newman: we'll jump!

redford: into a wormhole?

newman: sure, they'll never follow. Would you jump into a wormhole if you didn't have to?

redford: I do have to, and i still won't do it. I want to fight them.

newman:???

redford: I can't spacewalk. I get sick ...

newman: Hell, the gravitational gradient'll probably kill you!

newman&redford together: woooo-ohhhh!

as they fall into an oscilloscope pattern, leaving their bumpy headed pursuers (played by Strother Martin and Henry Jones) far behind.

Naah, I just don't see it ... plus, as I recall, the apocryphal story of recasting according to a facetious Susan Sackett and GR was Redford as Spock and Clint Walker (!?) as Kirk.

The Newman/Shatner issue IS interesting, since after James Dean died, Newman got all the parts Shatner was up for, including CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF, which the latter was considered pretty much a shoo-in for.
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Old December 26 2013, 04:30 AM   #34
Therin of Andor
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

trevanian wrote: View Post
plus, as I recall, the apocryphal story of recasting according to a facetious Susan Sackett and GR was Redford as Spock and Clint Walker (!?) as Kirk.
Well, there are definitely articles out there where Redford and Newman were suggested - and Walter Koenig bumped into Roddenberry at the time and GR surprised him by offering to write Walter a small part as Chekov's father. (So I'm thinking the book, "Chekov's Enterprise", is the source.)
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Old December 26 2013, 05:16 AM   #35
Lance
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

Armored Saint wrote: View Post
For me, TWOK is the real start. TMP is more a kind of cute reunion. Hey look, I'm now admiral and I don't really like it, so I decided to kick the kid from my old chair and to interrupt Bones's disco solo career. It's really TWOK that established the universe of TOS movies where the Enterprise and her crew are both aging.
While I do appreciate the dramatic pathos that the 'Kirk, his crew and their ship are all dinosaurs in a new age' vibe the rest of the TOS movies work so hard to perpetuate, I also think it's such a shame that TMP is the only time we see the refit Enterprise as fresh, shiny and in mint condition. By TWOK, even the Enterprise is seen as a raggedy-ann starship whose best days are behind it (hardly a dignified bearing for the old girl). And while the 1701-A is a spruced up ship in TFF, nothing on her works in that movie, so she's really just as knackered as the old model.

There is something to be said for the simple majesty the ship carries itself with throughout TMP. Sure, she has teething issues. But they aren't major, and they certainly don't imply the ship is a has-been on the fringe of retirement.
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Old December 26 2013, 03:25 PM   #36
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

BillJ wrote: View Post
I rank TMP as my favorite Trek film. So yes I think it was a good start.
Same.

The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
TMP comes off as much more of a standalone than part of the TOS movie series that follows.
Not a bad thing. And it was inevitable given TWOK is esentially a reboot. They pushed the setting forward in time and never again made any reference whatsoever to the events of TMP. It was treated as if it never happened. And yet I feel TMP feels more connected to TOS than most of anything else that followed.

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
One specific factor raises TMP's standing in my opinion--

With each subsequent ST film that AGAIN features an evil villain bent on destruction and AGAIN a space battle climax... TMP goes up a little more in my rankings.

TMP remains a highpoint if only to remind me that a Star Trek film does NOT need to be about evil supervillains and space battles EVERY TIME.
Definitely.

Lance wrote: View Post
While I do appreciate the dramatic pathos that the 'Kirk, his crew and their ship are all dinosaurs in a new age' vibe the rest of the TOS movies work so hard to perpetuate, I also think it's such a shame that TMP is the only time we see the refit Enterprise as fresh, shiny and in mint condition. By TWOK, even the Enterprise is seen as a raggedy-ann starship whose best days are behind it (hardly a dignified bearing for the old girl). And while the 1701-A is a spruced up ship in TFF, nothing on her works in that movie, so she's really just as knackered as the old model.

There is something to be said for the simple majesty the ship carries itself with throughout TMP. Sure, she has teething issues. But they aren't major, and they certainly don't imply the ship is a has-been on the fringe of retirement.
A definite issue with me as well. I never cared for how the Enterprise was treated from TWOK oneard.
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Old December 27 2013, 06:14 AM   #37
Lance
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

Warped9 wrote: View Post
The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
TMP comes off as much more of a standalone than part of the TOS movie series that follows.
Not a bad thing. And it was inevitable given TWOK is esentially a reboot. They pushed the setting forward in time and never again made any reference whatsoever to the events of TMP. It was treated as if it never happened. And yet I feel TMP feels more connected to TOS than most of anything else that followed.
I've seen a theory posited elsewhere that you can see TMP as being a 'post-script' to TOS. It's almost a series finale in a way, in that (despite it also being a 'new birth' for the USS Enterprise herself) it ties up a couple of character arcs from the series. In particular, Spock conquers his human-vs-Vulcan emotion thing that had tormented him sometimes throughout the series, and he comes out the other side of the movie with a much better understanding of who he is than he's arguably ever had before.

I guess you could say that TMP is a sort of 'TOS reunion special', if you like. The movies, and the movie continuity, truely begin with TWOK and then go forward from there.
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Old December 28 2013, 07:47 PM   #38
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I rank TMP as my favorite Trek film. So yes I think it was a good start.
^ This. For all its flaws, TMP is the one ST movie that I can guarantee I'll watch a least once a month.

I also think TMP marks the transition point where Trek goes from pulpy 60s sci-fi to trying to be a more dramatic, serious, sci-fi franchise.
Agree.

The Old Building & Loan wrote: View Post
TMP comes off as much more of a standalone than part of the TOS movie series that follows.
Agree.
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Old December 29 2013, 05:26 PM   #39
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

As TMP was set something like three years after the final events of the TV series, and because they resumed real-time-plus-centuiries-offset with TWOK, it helps to imagine TMP as a 1971 film rather than a 1979.
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Old December 30 2013, 09:08 AM   #40
gottacook
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

Elder Knight wrote: View Post
...it helps to imagine TMP as a 1971 film rather than a 1979.
Well, if one is inclined to such speculative ways of viewing actual Trek production history, one could say (for example) that TMP bears the same relation to the original series as the short-lived hour-long drama The Bradys - of which I saw an episode, featuring nearly all the original cast, in spring 1990 - bears to The Brady Bunch. There's an argument to be made in favor of this analogy, I swear.
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Old December 30 2013, 10:13 AM   #41
Therin of Andor
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

Elder Knight wrote: View Post
As TMP was set something like three years after the final events of the TV series, and because they resumed real-time-plus-centuiries-offset with TWOK, it helps to imagine TMP as a 1971 film rather than a 1979.
Except the fashions (McCoy's leisure suit and the aliens' ambassadorial robes, cuffs and sleeves) and hairstyles are very 1978.
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Old December 31 2013, 01:46 AM   #42
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

Warped9 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I rank TMP as my favorite Trek film. So yes I think it was a good start.
Same.
I confess TWoK is my favourite but there's a lot to love in TMP. It's certainly my favourite Enterprise. I think with a bit more interplay and camaraderie between the junior staff in the latter 2/3 of the movie and a landing party featuring more than just the Big 3 and it would be a real contender for me.

My little Youtube comic was born out of a desire to explore what a TMP style Phase II series with Decker and Ilia might have been like.
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Old December 31 2013, 01:47 AM   #43
Elder Knight
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Elder Knight wrote: View Post
As TMP was set something like three years after the final events of the TV series, and because they resumed real-time-plus-centuiries-offset with TWOK, it helps to imagine TMP as a 1971 film rather than a 1979.
Except the fashions (McCoy's leisure suit and the aliens' ambassadorial robes, cuffs and sleeves) and hairstyles are very 1978.
What I meant was, for my own peace of mind re continuity, I pretend that TMP was closer to TOS than it was to TWOK in real time.

So, had they made it in '71, McCoy would have worn an Edwardian suit as a civilian?

(Spock did have a "Nehru" collar, as I recall, but those were gone by '71, I think.)
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Old January 12 2014, 09:24 PM   #44
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

TMP is a great science fiction movie that shows us how interesting a simple (yet straightforward) story can be. It has its pacing flaws but it was a great starting point and is still by far my favorite Star Trek movie. It's the only one that I keep revisiting very often and this is the movie that got me hooked into the Star Trek franchise! Also it has a superb soundtrack and stunning visual effects that aged pretty well and are believable even nowadays.

Heck, a movie that has Blaster Beam sound effects can't be bad at all
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Old January 13 2014, 02:16 AM   #45
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Re: The Motion Picture question..

RColtrane wrote: View Post
Heck, a movie that has Blaster Beam sound effects can't be bad at all
Meteor.
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