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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old December 30 2013, 06:21 PM   #16
desfem79
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

Makarov wrote: View Post
Like it or not Picard and company got involved in their affairs... to just run away at that moment seems like a bad idea. What if the soldiers took over the government and decided everyone else wasn't fit to live in it, like an army of Khans?

It's a funny lighthearted ending to the episode but not one that holds up when I think about it, that's okay though I like the episode.
But then involved by chance. Picard and co. only thought they were recovering a criminal.
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Old January 4 2014, 05:12 AM   #17
Dale Sams
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

OldTrek: Let's repair this asteroid deflector thingie, well crap...let's burn out our warp drive trying to stop the asteroid and spend six months chugging along beside it.

NuTrek: "Eff those guys. You endangered the ship. You're demoted."

Man...blow up one core Federation world and everyone turns into an asshole.
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Old January 4 2014, 05:55 AM   #18
BillJ
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
OldTrek: Let's repair this asteroid deflector thingie, well crap...let's burn out our warp drive trying to stop the asteroid and spend six months chugging along beside it.

NuTrek: "Eff those guys. You endangered the ship. You're demoted."

Man...blow up one core Federation world and everyone turns into an asshole.
I don't think Kirk lost his command over violating the Prime Directive. He lost his command because he lied on official reports.
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Old January 4 2014, 01:53 PM   #19
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

Makarov wrote: View Post
Like it or not Picard and company got involved in their affairs... to just run away at that moment seems like a bad idea. What if the soldiers took over the government and decided everyone else wasn't fit to live in it, like an army of Khans?
More like, what if the army decided that only veterans could run things and that democracy was a sham, like in Starship Troopers?
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Old January 4 2014, 05:02 PM   #20
Anwar
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

Bacl wrote: View Post
Ensign_Redshirt wrote: View Post
Following this logic, being invaded by Cardassians or Klingons must also be part of their natural develoment.
Which is why the Federation did not interfere with the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, even though the Cardassians were essentially doing something along the lines of slavery/holocaust to the Bajorans.
The Feds didn't do anything over Bajor because Bajor was formally annexed by Cardassia. As in, the Bajoran Government at the time signed over their world to the Cardassians in a perfectly legal and acknowledged manner. Of course, it was probably a disruptor-to-the-head negotiation, but there's no real proof.

So even if what happened was brutal, the way it all came about was legal. The Feds couldn't just intervene all willy-nilly.
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Old January 4 2014, 06:55 PM   #21
T'Girl
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
More like, what if the army decided that only veterans could run things and that democracy was a sham, like in Starship Troopers?
In Starship Troopers (the novel) you had to of engaged in some form of public service in order to gain the ability to vote and hold public office.

Military service was only one of the ways to gain "the franchise." According to Heinlein about 2% of the people who gain the franchise did so through military service.

But there were lot's of other ways.

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Old January 4 2014, 08:13 PM   #22
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
In Starship Troopers (the novel) you had to of engaged in some form of public service in order to gain the ability to vote and hold public office.
But the novel showed that this came about because the veterans of the world conflicts took control of society after it had broken down and imposed this edict of public service (Federal Service) having to be done in order to get said franchise.

Last edited by Shaka Zulu; January 4 2014 at 11:53 PM.
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Old January 5 2014, 03:52 AM   #23
RunawayStarShip
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

Anwar wrote: View Post
Bacl wrote: View Post
Ensign_Redshirt wrote: View Post
Following this logic, being invaded by Cardassians or Klingons must also be part of their natural develoment.
Which is why the Federation did not interfere with the Cardassian occupation of Bajor, even though the Cardassians were essentially doing something along the lines of slavery/holocaust to the Bajorans.
The Feds didn't do anything over Bajor because Bajor was formally annexed by Cardassia. As in, the Bajoran Government at the time signed over their world to the Cardassians in a perfectly legal and acknowledged manner. Of course, it was probably a disruptor-to-the-head negotiation, but there's no real proof.

So even if what happened was brutal, the way it all came about was legal. The Feds couldn't just intervene all willy-nilly.
I think that the simpler answer is that the Federation still adheres to realpolitik. It's not going to send Starfleet to right every wrong. If it did, it would be at war with everyone. As long as the Federation strives to behave in the most just way that it can, that's probably enough for its citizens and government.

I've always thought that it's called the Prime Directive/General Order One because Starfleet wants all of its officers to consider the consequences of their actions and to always err on the side of caution. In reality, it's really more the "Prime Suggestion", since there seems to be no actual consequence to breaking the Prime Directive as long as there is a good explanation. According to "The Drumhead", Picard has broken the Prime Directive nine times in his first four years as captain of the Enterprise-D. He remains the captain of the Federation flagship for another four years, and proceeds to command the Enterprise-E.

As for why Picard always seems adamant (at least on the surface) about following the letter (rather than the spirit) of the Prime Directive, it is possible that he is worried about a possible court martial after Louvois' relentlessness in the Stargazer court martial. (Or it's just an act to emphasize the importance of the PD to more junior officers... he does usually go along with it in the end...)
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Old January 5 2014, 05:49 AM   #24
T'Girl
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
But the novel showed that this came about because the veterans of the world conflicts took control of society after it had broken down and imposed this edict of public service (Federal Service) having to be done in order to get said franchise.
Which isn't the same as "only veterans could run things and that democracy was a sham," While veterans did precipitate a societal change, there was no indication that they seized control, or that democracy stopped. Anyone could obtain the franchise, the novel made clear that if you truly couldn't do anything, society would create some half-assed job for you in order for you to have engaged in public service.

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Old January 11 2014, 05:17 PM   #25
The Transformed Man
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

God I hated this episode. So overly simplistic i its morality while beating the audience over the head with a hammer.

Hey kids here's our "Post-Vietnam soldier with PTSD" episode. Let's sum it up:

Government... bad... soldiers... brainwashed. Soldiers... dangerous... need help... but do bad things... We walk away.

Just awful; some of the most simplistic, ham-fisted writing in all of Trek. So to believe the writers, basically every soldier who served in Vietnam is a ticking time bomb waiting to go off, but the government has largely ignored them and has treated them like outcasts.

Funny, I served in the Army for 8 years... quite a few of the people I served with were combat veterans and we some of the nicest, most well adjusted, honorable people I've ever had the pleasure to meet. My next door neighbor is also a veteran, and again is probably one of the most decent people I know. He's actively involved in his church and works tirelessly to help homeless vets.

Now there's an issue I'd like to see Trek handle...
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Old January 12 2014, 02:01 AM   #26
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

The occupation of Bajor was only 'legal' because the guys with the bigger guns said it was legal. You know, like real life occupations. If there was at some point a paper signed signing Bajor over to Cardassia, the official who signed the document did not own the lives of Bajorans, and did not have the right to hand them all over to the Cardassians.

The Federation didn't intervene with Bajor because it wouldn't have been in their own political best interests. It had nothing to do with legality or any kind of higher moral concept. Political convenience, pure and simple.
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Old January 12 2014, 04:33 AM   #27
Anwar
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
The occupation of Bajor was only 'legal' because the guys with the bigger guns said it was legal. You know, like real life occupations. If there was at some point a paper signed signing Bajor over to Cardassia, the official who signed the document did not own the lives of Bajorans, and did not have the right to hand them all over to the Cardassians.
If he/she was an elected official chosen by the people to do so, he/she did have the legal authority to do so.

The Federation didn't intervene with Bajor because it wouldn't have been in their own political best interests. It had nothing to do with legality or any kind of higher moral concept. Political convenience, pure and simple.
And the Feds can't go around disregarding Intergalactic Laws accepted by their equals just when they feel like it. It'd disrupt Agreements made to preserve Order and their (equally powerful neighbors) suspicious as to why they should tolerate the Feds.
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Old January 12 2014, 05:23 AM   #28
George Steinbrenner
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

Anwar wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
If there was at some point a paper signed signing Bajor over to Cardassia, the official who signed the document did not own the lives of Bajorans, and did not have the right to hand them all over to the Cardassians.
If he/she was an elected official chosen by the people to do so, he/she did have the legal authority to do so.
But any document signed under duress, which this surely would have been, is by definition invalid.
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Old January 12 2014, 06:20 PM   #29
Anwar
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

That's the thing, there was no proof of it being signed under duress except by Bajoran rebels (who are...you know...rebels). Sure, it'd be kind of accepted in hindsight, but you still need proof before violating intergalactic laws.
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Old January 13 2014, 12:37 AM   #30
The Dead Mixer
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Re: Why did the crew walk away at the end of The Hunted?

By the time we met the Cardassians or the Bajorans, the Federation wasn't at war with Cardassia anymore, they were trying to keep an uneasy truce.
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