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Old January 11 2014, 10:09 PM   #16
Mister Fandango
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

My only issue with it is that she figured out who he was before he was even Superman. In effect, she never figures out that Superman is Clark Kent. She instead discovers that Clark Kent is just some dude who has superpowers. I'd have much rather have had Superman be known to the world first, and then have her figure out who he was from there (with no need for her having ever met Clark Kent, let alone be in any kind of relationship with him, romantic or professional, first).

In the movie, he never really adopts a secret identity. He adopts a hero identity.
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Old January 12 2014, 01:00 AM   #17
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

FWIW, a lot of Golden Age heroes had civilian confidantes...many of them girlfriends.
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Old January 12 2014, 01:42 AM   #18
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

^ Indeed. Lois and Clark sharing the secret is one of the things I like about Man of Steel.

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
In the movie, he never really adopts a secret identity. He adopts a hero identity.
That's fine. Clark as the real person is better anyway.
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Old January 12 2014, 01:49 AM   #19
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

Also, I didn't get from the Seinfeld quote that he specifically had a problem with Lois knowing the secret...just that the classic secret identity didn't come into the film until the very end.
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Old January 12 2014, 09:20 AM   #20
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

the G-man wrote: View Post
There actually was a valid literary point to Lois not knowing that Clark was Superman.

For about 50 years one of the main themes of Superman if not the main theme was the idea of the secret hero inside of us that others could not see.

Lois was the symbol-the human face-of all of that. She was the woman that Clark loved but whom he could not share his secret with.
Why can't he? The reason we're given is, "If she knows my secret identity, she'll be in danger from my enemies." This totally ignores the fact that being publicly associated with him puts her in danger from his enemies anyway!

In-universe, popular perception of Lois is either as Superman's romantic interest or his exclusive reporter, just as Jimmy Olson is known as "Superman's Pal." Any villain can kidnap or otherwise threaten them to get an edge.

They could torture Lois to find out the secret identity regardless of whether she actually knows it. The only difference, then, is whether Superman has confided it to her out of trust, or kept it from her out of self-interest. Which action is more heroic?

The same is true for any hero who's publicly associated with any civilian. The most egregious example is Iron Man supposedly being Tony Stark's bodyguard. I'm sure Stan Lee thought that was a great twist on the "secret identity" concept, but it makes no sense at all. Stark (and his entire company) become a great big target for any villain. They're actually more vulnerable than if the Iron Man identity was just some free agent.

Is there any other convincing reason why Superman can't tell Lois???

It added a certain tragedy to the character. It also harkened back to classic and powerful myths about Gods in disguise.
The character shouldn't publicly associate with ANY civilians for their own safety. Cut off from society, forever alone due to your sense of responsibility... that's how you could portray a tragedy.
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Old January 12 2014, 09:52 AM   #21
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

Here's some thought.

There's this villain called Superwoman, who is Lois Lane from a Mirror universe.

2 things.

1. Could Superwoman do such awful Hitler Like things, that "Clark" loses his boner for any version of Lois Lane Across the Mutiverse?

2. Superman comes home from a hard day beating up Superwoman, and then asks his Lois if she wants to dress up like Superwoman as foreplay?
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Old January 12 2014, 03:48 PM   #22
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
In the movie, he never really adopts a secret identity. He adopts a hero identity.
That's fine. Clark as the real person is better anyway.
I wasn't talking about that at all.

The point I was trying to make is that in the movie, he never really was Superman. He was just some dude in a stupid pair of pajamas supposedly masquerading as alien armor (which looked even more silly when his opponents wore actual alien armor), and an off-hand comment here and there mentioning the word "super" in equally silly ways. It was only a Superman movie because we, the audience, knew he was supposed to be Superman, but in the movie, he never really was. Let alone Superman who needed a civilian persona -- whether it was who he really was or not -- in order to escape any fame or persecution he'd suffer when not out saving the world.

He was just some... dude.
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Old January 12 2014, 06:29 PM   #23
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

After 10 seasons of Clark Kent keeping his secret to absurd lengths it's a refreshing change. I'm just tired of heroes keeping their secret hidden from friends and family. Grimm has improved now that everyone but one character knows that Nick is a Grimm. The secret identity thing is way too played out for me. It bores and frustrates me now.
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Old January 12 2014, 06:52 PM   #24
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

Well, secret identities do matter, just read Meltzer's & Morales "Identity Crisis" to refresh your memory about that.

In this particular case, however, I could live with it. It also reminded me of something I had read online years before, which I dug up again now: Jerry Siegel wanted Lois Lane to learn Superman's secret identity all the way back in 1940!


I wouldn't want Lois knowing Clark's secret from the get-go to be used that much in the future, though. For this one interpretation, I'm okay with it, but that's it. Have her learn later on.
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Old January 12 2014, 08:34 PM   #25
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

Kai "the spy" wrote: View Post
something I had read online years before, which I dug up again now: Jerry Siegel wanted Lois Lane to learn Superman's secret identity all the way back in 1940!
I've read about that before. At the same time, just because the creator had an idea for a long running character doesn't mean it was a good idea.

See, e.g., George Lucas and the prequels.

Really, at some point, the more you diminish the "secret identity" aspect of Superman, the less you have what makes him unique. He basically becomes Martian Manhunter, Capt. Mar-vell, or any of a dozen other super alien characters.

Of course, turning Superman into a generic superhero in the Nu-Marvel/90s Image mode seems to be exactly what DC wants to do.
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Old January 12 2014, 08:36 PM   #26
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

...what makes him unique...?
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Old January 12 2014, 08:57 PM   #27
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

The specific aspects of his secret ID in the broader context of the character and taking into account that others have imitated this over the years.
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Old January 12 2014, 09:13 PM   #28
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
I wasn't talking about that at all.

He was just some... dude.
Ah, fair enough.

the G-man wrote: View Post
Really, at some point, the more you diminish the "secret identity" aspect of Superman, the less you have what makes him unique. He basically becomes Martian Manhunter, Capt. Mar-vell, or any of a dozen other super alien characters.
He's still raised from infancy by humans as a human. Essentially, the ultimate immigrant.
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Old January 12 2014, 10:15 PM   #29
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Here's some thought.

There's this villain called Superwoman, who is Lois Lane from a Mirror universe.
Actually, Superwoman is the evil counterpart of Wonder Woman - she just took the *name* Lois Lane.
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Old January 13 2014, 12:24 AM   #30
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Re: Lois, Clark & Superman?

the G-man wrote: View Post
I've read about that before. At the same time, just because the creator had an idea for a long running character doesn't mean it was a good idea.

See, e.g., George Lucas and the prequels.
He wasn't a long-running character when they considered doing it...he was only a couple of years old. Had they gone that route, Lois knowing Supes's identity would likely have gone on to become a traditional aspect of the mythos in the decades to follow...like the Daily Planet, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen, bald Luthor, and Kryptonite, all of which were either just being established around 1940 or yet to come.

The Star Wars prequel example doesn't apply it all. It's more akin to deciding that Vader would be Luke's father while making TESB.
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