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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate The Poisoned Chalice.
Outstanding 52 53.06%
Above Average 40 40.82%
Average 5 5.10%
Below Average 1 1.02%
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Old January 9 2014, 12:59 PM   #181
James Swallow
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

Markonian wrote: View Post
In-universe, three years have passed since Titan's last adventure (2382 - 2385). I wonder whether the crew experienced more action in the meantime, or whether it's been hinted at that it were "three ordinary years, nothing special happend today."?
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
And, if the Titan really has been out there that long, how does it get back to Earth so quickly, as someone else questioned? It's not a Vesta-class, it just can't move that fast. Not deal-breakers, any of these, but definite quibbles.
Just picking up on a couple of things: stuff happened, of that you can be sure, during that "missing time". It just wasn't relevant to the plotline of The Fall. As for how they got home quick - shortcut.

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
To wit - this doesn't feel like an actual Titan novel.
That's because it isn't meant to be a Star Trek: Titan novel. The Poisoned Chalice is a Star Trek: The Fall novel with Titan characters (and others) in it, not the other way around. I deliberately wrote it from the ground up to synch with the 'political thriller' sensibilities of the Fall narrative rather than the 'strange new worlds' tone of the Star Trek: Titan series.
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Old January 9 2014, 07:58 PM   #182
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
I just remembered a couple of editing mistakes I wanted to bring up. In at least two places, you used the word 'succession' when referring to the Andorians, when you meant 'secession.' Probably just an auto-correct mistake, but still, it should have been caught by the editor. Andor itself was inconsistent - sometimes you called it Andor, sometimes Andoria. I wondered if perhaps Andor was the physical planet while Andoria was the political entity, but that wasn't consistent either. Again, should have been caught by the editor.
I can't speak for Mr. Swallow, but I suspect that the use of both "Andor" and "Andoria" was intentional. Andor: Paradigm by Heather Jarman established back in '04 that they're both valid names for the Andorian homeworld; think of it as being like someone alternating between "the United Kingdom" and "Great Britain."
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Old January 10 2014, 06:03 PM   #183
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

Sci wrote: View Post
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
I just remembered a couple of editing mistakes I wanted to bring up. In at least two places, you used the word 'succession' when referring to the Andorians, when you meant 'secession.' Probably just an auto-correct mistake, but still, it should have been caught by the editor. Andor itself was inconsistent - sometimes you called it Andor, sometimes Andoria. I wondered if perhaps Andor was the physical planet while Andoria was the political entity, but that wasn't consistent either. Again, should have been caught by the editor.
I can't speak for Mr. Swallow, but I suspect that the use of both "Andor" and "Andoria" was intentional. Andor: Paradigm by Heather Jarman established back in '04 that they're both valid names for the Andorian homeworld; think of it as being like someone alternating between "the United Kingdom" and "Great Britain."
/\ This.
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Old January 11 2014, 01:21 AM   #184
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

^ Heck, maybe Andor refers to the homeworld, while Andoria encompasses the homeworld and all its independent protectorates and/or possessions/colonies.
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Old January 11 2014, 01:32 AM   #185
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

David Mack wrote: View Post
^ Heck, maybe Andor refers to the homeworld, while Andoria encompasses the homeworld and all its independent protectorates and/or possessions/colonies.
Or Andor is the ball of rock and ice, while Andoria is the nation? One the planet itself, one the civilization built upon it. The first a description of physical reality, the other of the spiritual and cultural significance of the place?

I recall some of the old RPG material suggesting that "Andor" is their term for "the world", literally meaning something akin to "all creation" and it was "corrected" to "Andoria", which is something like a diminutive form, when the natives learned that their planet was one of many (and they should scale back its significance. Or something).
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Old January 11 2014, 11:01 AM   #186
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

Just FYI, the folks over at the Ten Forward podcast have posted up an interview I did with them about The Poisoned Chalice; check it out here.
Thanks to Sina, Michael and Paul for having me on the show!
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Old January 11 2014, 11:05 AM   #187
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

According to the background section of the relevant article on Memory Alpha, Andoria is the name of the Andorian/Aenar homeworld. Andoria is the moon orbiting the gas giant Andor. Thus, in everyday language these terms can be used interchangeably.
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Old January 11 2014, 01:36 PM   #188
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

David Mack wrote: View Post
^ Heck, maybe Andor refers to the homeworld, while Andoria encompasses the homeworld and all its independent protectorates and/or possessions/colonies.
In other words, Andor is the homeworld, and Andoria is the name for the Andorian state?

Possible. ENT seemed to establish that the Andorian state was known as the Andorian Empire, but Christopher's recent Rise of the Federation: A Choice of Futures went out of its way to avoid referring the "Imperial Guard" the way it had been called on ENT, using the term "Andorian Guard" instead; one could speculate that perhaps before joining the Federation, the Andorian Empire changed its name to simply Andoria. (Sort of the way the Dominion of Canada changed its name to just Canada.)

Markonian wrote: View Post
According to the background section of the relevant article on Memory Alpha, Andoria is the name of the Andorian/Aenar homeworld. Andoria is the moon orbiting the gas giant Andor. Thus, in everyday language these terms can be used interchangeably.
That explanation, though, is non-canonical. Which I'm glad of, because I find it highly counter-intuitive; why would the Andorians name the world they're actually from the diminutive of the gas giant it happens to orbit? The ancient Andorians wouldn't have known that their world was orbiting the gas giant; they probably would have thought the gas giant was orbiting their world, the way Humans used to think the Sun revolved around Earth.

So if we insist that the gas giant and the satellite have to share a name structure, it would make more sense to assume that they would have given the gas giant a diminutive version of the name for the satellite, since the satellite would have been the body they'd actually have thought of as the center of the universe.

Still, it all seems much simpler to infer that they're just two names for the same homeworld. This is what Heather Jarman explicitly established in Andor: Paradigm, in a scene where Prynn and Shar are talking. Prynn expresses confusion over the use of the word "Andor," saying she'd grown up hearing it called "Andoria." If I recall the scene correctly, Shar replies that he was surprised when he got to Starfleet Academy and everyone was calling it "Earth;" he'd grown up hearing it referred to as "Terra." It was a cute scene.
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Old January 11 2014, 04:20 PM   #189
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

Sci wrote: View Post
That explanation, though, is non-canonical. Which I'm glad of, because I find it highly counter-intuitive; why would the Andorians name the world they're actually from the diminutive of the gas giant it happens to orbit? The ancient Andorians wouldn't have known that their world was orbiting the gas giant; they probably would have thought the gas giant was orbiting their world, the way Humans used to think the Sun revolved around Earth.
I agree with what you said, though this part made me think. I wonder if the gas giant would actually dominate the sky in the way our Sun (or the Andorian sun) wouldn't. I don't feel like doing the math to find out just how large a difference there would be, but I imagine the gas giant would be much larger in the sky than the star. So perhaps the "Andor-centric" viewpoint might not have been the same as on Earth?
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Old January 11 2014, 06:47 PM   #190
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

While we're on the topic: The annotations for Watching the Clock use the name Fesoan for the gas giant (originally a native name for Andor/Andoria listed in The Worlds of the Federation). The Fesoan Lor'veln calendar established in Beneath the Raptor's Wing is interpreted as relating to Andor's orbit around the gas giant.
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Old January 11 2014, 09:53 PM   #191
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

JeBuS wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
That explanation, though, is non-canonical. Which I'm glad of, because I find it highly counter-intuitive; why would the Andorians name the world they're actually from the diminutive of the gas giant it happens to orbit? The ancient Andorians wouldn't have known that their world was orbiting the gas giant; they probably would have thought the gas giant was orbiting their world, the way Humans used to think the Sun revolved around Earth.
I agree with what you said, though this part made me think. I wonder if the gas giant would actually dominate the sky in the way our Sun (or the Andorian sun) wouldn't. I don't feel like doing the math to find out just how large a difference there would be, but I imagine the gas giant would be much larger in the sky than the star. So perhaps the "Andor-centric" viewpoint might not have been the same as on Earth?
It's possible, but it still seems counter-intuitive to me. Even if Fesoan (thanks, Deranged Nasat!) dominates the Andorian sky in a way that Luna or Sol never dominated the Earth sky, it seems implausible that the ancient Andorians would have imagined that big thing in the sky to be more important than the ground where they actually lived. And I have a hard time imagining a primitive society being able to accurately perceive that their world is revolving around Fesoan, rather than mistaking its movement in the sky for Fesoan revolving around their world. That kind of optical illusion would be pretty strong.
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Old January 12 2014, 12:02 AM   #192
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

I did find a screencap of Fesoan from the surface of Andor(ia) from The Aenar.
This is the Northern Wastes during the 22nd century, so it could look different in 24th and on a different part of the planet, but I think it still gives a pretty good idea of what it would look like.
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Old January 12 2014, 12:26 AM   #193
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Emh wrote: View Post
...as well as the surprise return of Tom Riker (complete with references to Imzadi II and Double Helix: Quarantine). Lastly, I really liked Commander Atia and I hope we see more of her in the future.
I caught the Quarantine reference - what was the Imzadi one?
Honestly, I can't remember exactly what it was, but I think it was a sly reference to Sela.
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Old January 12 2014, 08:37 AM   #194
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

So this is pretty much my favorite Trek book of 2013. Excellent!
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Old January 12 2014, 07:09 PM   #195
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Re: TF: The Poisoned Chalice by James Swallow Review Thread (Spoilers!

Emh wrote: View Post
lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
Emh wrote: View Post
...as well as the surprise return of Tom Riker (complete with references to Imzadi II and Double Helix: Quarantine). Lastly, I really liked Commander Atia and I hope we see more of her in the future.
I caught the Quarantine reference - what was the Imzadi one?
Honestly, I can't remember exactly what it was, but I think it was a sly reference to Sela.
I think the events of ImzadiII were also alluded to in the Slings and Arrows eBook with the Maquis.
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