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Old January 10 2014, 03:46 AM   #46
Olive, the Other Reindeer
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
I doubt it... a lot of the "Futuristic Fashion" seems way too implausible.
Implausible? Why, what on earth do you mean?

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Old January 10 2014, 03:55 AM   #47
Timewalker
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
They should have consulted fan costume and SCA costume designers. It's a basic thing the experienced costumers drill into people: never design anything that prevents you from using the bathroom!
Ah, but part of the magic of SF TV is to create things that are not possible in the 21st century. That's why so many fanmade costumes never look right. Even professionally-tailored costumes can't replicate a TV costume as a "convention floor costume" that needs to be worn all day, survive eating/drinking and undergo multiple washes.
Well, some hall costumes don't actually need to survive eating, drinking, and washing. One guy colored himself all over with blue food coloring, made himself a smock of ancient computer data punch cards, and went as a "computer malfunction." His costume worked great at the convention... until it was time for him to hitchhike home on Sunday (from Calgary to Edmonton) and he couldn't get the blue food coloring washed off. So this dark-haired, bearded guy, blue-skinned from head to toe, is standing on Highway 2 trying to hitch a ride home...

And then there's the woman who glued fabric and sparkles on herself, covering just the bare minimum of what had to be. And it was actually in the convention program book that peanut butter costumes were not allowed in the hotel pool area. Apparently somebody caused a huge mess the year before, and the concom wanted to make sure after that that everyone knew peanut butter costumes are a Bad Idea.

As for my own costumes? Well, I flanged up a TOS-style women's dress uniform. It was actually a long-sleeved evening dress, would have passed for a 23rd-century style garment, and I added a science division insignia on the front (it was a lovely powder blue color - just perfect). Would it have looked as good on TV as it did in person? I have no idea. But my friend who wore it to the Saturday night costume bacchanal got loads of compliments on it.

I recently found and re-read my copy of Chekov's Enterprise. Walter Koenig devoted a fair number of his journal-style entries to talking about how uncomfortable and inconvenient the costumes were. And yes, to take off his shirt required help.

Personally, I think it's crazy to design costumes that aren't functional in everyday, normal situations like eating, drinking, bathroom-going, or even just sitting down.
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Old January 10 2014, 04:06 AM   #48
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

scotpens wrote: View Post
Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
I doubt it... a lot of the "Futuristic Fashion" seems way too implausible.
Implausible? Why, what on earth do you mean?

I'm sorry but the only weird thing about those costumes were the capes (NO CAPES!). Those shoulders would not have looked all that out of place on an episode of Dynasty back in the 80s (which from the perspective of Things to Come was the future).
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Old January 10 2014, 04:07 AM   #49
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

PicardSpeedo wrote: View Post
Metryq wrote: View Post
One of the functions of Geordi's visor is an "eye bleach" filter.

I attended a sci-fi convention many, many moons ago when the network was threatening to kill the "V" series. About half the convention-goers showed up in red "Visitor" uniforms to show their support. You've heard the adage "spandex is a privilege, not a right." Well, I could have used Geordi's visor. The future will probably look more like WALL*E than STAR TREK or BUCK ROGERS.
Let's not forget the eye bleach we all needed after being subjected to the sight of Will Decker's genitalia being smashed up against the inside of his TMP catsuit...
Some of us enjoyed the view
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Old January 10 2014, 04:13 AM   #50
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Body modification: another thing I would never be into.
You shave you head, right? Hair is part of your body. So that's body modification, too.
As someone who started life as a boy, and subsequently transformed into a girl, the whole "body modification" thing is something I can personally endorse.

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Old January 10 2014, 04:22 AM   #51
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
MikeS wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Blue jeans have been around since 1873 and there is no reason they should fall out of existence in the future, in favor of "Star Trek Civilian" -- a line of clothing that seldom looked real.
I am pretty sure that toga's were around for longer than 131 years, yet they eventually fell out of fashion.

But - you're mistaken in thinking denim had "[fallen] out exsistence in the future". Kirk and Bones wear them on their camping trip in Star Trek V.
"Star Trek Civilian" usually looked pretty ugly, especially the sweaters and dresses.

Togas are rather interesting... of course they wouldn't make a comeback in our society, since for one thing there would be the cry of "OMG, that man is wearing a DRESS!!!" and for another, they're really fussy garments to drape correctly. They're not very practical - I can't see a bunch of men wearing togas going about their daily business in modern society without tripping over them, getting them caught in elevator doors, and finding it impossible to carry stuff. And what kind of footwear could they use that wouldn't look incredibly stupid? Sandals are impractical in our climate for much of the year.

Mind you, the class of people in ancient Rome who wore togas also had slaves to do all the practical physical stuff for them anyway, including draping them correctly in the first place.

PicardSpeedo wrote: View Post
Something definitely changed in the world of civilian fashion between Kirk's era and Picard's era. Check our the getups everyone's wearing in Search for Spock, then compare that to what we see on DS9. We went from hip couture to space spandex overnight.
Considering that it was supposed to be 75-80 years between Kirk and Picard, that was hardly "overnight."

PicardSpeedo wrote: View Post
Let's not forget the eye bleach we all needed after being subjected to the sight of Matt Decker's genitalia being smashed up the inside of his TMP catsuit...
You mean Will Decker. Matt Decker was his father.

And yeah, that's one camera shot that never should have made it anywhere but the cutting room floor.
Togas will never make a comeback because they are grossly impractical.

Most scifi clothing is designed more for aesthetic reasons when in reality, clothes (uniforms or otherwise) are becoming more functional. A man who put on jeans a plain tshirt and a pair of boots would not look out of place at any point in the last century. The reason is that those are simple basic clothes that never really go out of style. Mens wear barely changes in anything but the subtle details. Its one of the reasons that "fashion" focuses almost exclusively on women. Mens clothes are almost purely functional (the tie being the last vestige of any real nonfunctional ornamentation). Mens clots tend to be very simple, very functional and emphasize comfort above all else. Its one of the reasons why historically women have fought for the right to wear essentially the same clothes as men.

Future clothes probably won't look all that different from the way they look now. The colors might be wilder or more muted, the fit might be tighter or baggier but it will all boil down to a simple shirt and a pair of pants. The sort of thing that one can roll out of bed, but on with as little fuss as possible and get moving in.
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Old January 10 2014, 05:10 AM   #52
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

Holographic clothing.
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Old January 10 2014, 06:16 AM   #53
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

One interesting note:

For about 7000 years, on the job footwear consisted of mid-calf to knee-high boots for men, who worked out of doors, either in farm fields or as soldiers, and sandals for women, who mostly worked indoors.

Some time in the last 200 years, women appropriated the tall boot as a fashion statement, and men were forced to rely on ankle-length laced boots. Today, women wear tall boots sometimes daily, with some women having enough pairs to go a week or more without wearing the same pair twice, but if a man wears tall boots, he either must be in some kind of costume, even if its a competition costume, say dressage, or gay and looking for some action. Men, it seems, are not allowed to wear the tall boots that used to define a man who worked hard out of doors.

My question is, how did this happen?
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Old January 10 2014, 06:38 AM   #54
Kathy Kringle
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
They should have consulted fan costume and SCA costume designers. It's a basic thing the experienced costumers drill into people: never design anything that prevents you from using the bathroom!
Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
I doubt it... a lot of the "Futuristic Fashion" seems way too implausible.
No, it's true.

You don't ever want your principal actors complaining, but extras are just extras. Similarly, when the TNG main cast got two-piece uniforms in Season Three, many background extras continued wearing the one-piece costumes.
Oh you misunderstood me. I meant implausible in the real world. As in, I don't think that in the 24th century, humans will be walking around in tight onesies.
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Old January 10 2014, 07:14 AM   #55
Timewalker
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

FormerLurker wrote: View Post
One interesting note:

For about 7000 years, on the job footwear consisted of mid-calf to knee-high boots for men, who worked out of doors, either in farm fields or as soldiers, and sandals for women, who mostly worked indoors.

Some time in the last 200 years, women appropriated the tall boot as a fashion statement, and men were forced to rely on ankle-length laced boots. Today, women wear tall boots sometimes daily, with some women having enough pairs to go a week or more without wearing the same pair twice, but if a man wears tall boots, he either must be in some kind of costume, even if its a competition costume, say dressage, or gay and looking for some action. Men, it seems, are not allowed to wear the tall boots that used to define a man who worked hard out of doors.

My question is, how did this happen?
If you want to wear boots and still be considered an "I work hard out-of-doors" guy, cowboy boots should do the trick.

Of course, it depends on what kind of outdoor work you're referring to. Some guys wear tall rubber boots if the places they're working are particularly muddy, wet, or just plain icky.

As for women and boots... it could have something to do with the hemlines rising after WWI. As the hemlines got higher, it could be that higher boots were a way to preserve some sort of modesty so the women had more freedom of movement but still weren't technically showing "too much leg."

That's just a guess on my part, though.
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Old January 10 2014, 10:57 AM   #56
Gotham Central
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

FormerLurker wrote: View Post
One interesting note:

For about 7000 years, on the job footwear consisted of mid-calf to knee-high boots for men, who worked out of doors, either in farm fields or as soldiers, and sandals for women, who mostly worked indoors.

Some time in the last 200 years, women appropriated the tall boot as a fashion statement, and men were forced to rely on ankle-length laced boots. Today, women wear tall boots sometimes daily, with some women having enough pairs to go a week or more without wearing the same pair twice, but if a man wears tall boots, he either must be in some kind of costume, even if its a competition costume, say dressage, or gay and looking for some action. Men, it seems, are not allowed to wear the tall boots that used to define a man who worked hard out of doors.

My question is, how did this happen?
Tall boots were simply functional for the environment in which men worked. Tall boots protected legs/shins in grass lands and fields from brush/plants or modest protection during combat. Note that to this day, combat boots remained fairly tall.

Take away hazards and mens footwear gets shorter and simpler.
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Old January 10 2014, 11:52 AM   #57
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

TayLaLaLa wrote: View Post
Holographic clothing.
Truly outrageous!
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Old January 10 2014, 05:36 PM   #58
MikeS
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

MikeS wrote: View Post
ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Blue jeans have been around since 1873 and there is no reason they should fall out of existence in the future, in favor of "Star Trek Civilian" -- a line of clothing that seldom looked real.
I am pretty sure that toga's were around for longer than 131 years, yet they eventually fell out of fashion...
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Togas are rather interesting... of course they wouldn't make a comeback in our society, since for one thing there would be the cry of "OMG, that man is wearing a DRESS!!!" and for another, they're really fussy garments to drape correctly. They're not very practical - I can't see a bunch of men wearing togas going about their daily business in modern society without tripping over them, getting them caught in elevator doors, and finding it impossible to carry stuff. And what kind of footwear could they use that wouldn't look incredibly stupid? Sandals are impractical in our climate for much of the year.

Mind you, the class of people in ancient Rome who wore togas also had slaves to do all the practical physical stuff for them anyway, including draping them correctly in the first place.
Togas will never make a comeback because they are grossly impractical.
Not for the first time the intention behind my post has been lost (I think it's pretty clear) - ZapBrannigan queried why jeans fell out of fashion in "the future" when they've been around for 131 years. I merely stated that toga's were around for longer yet they had fell out of fashion. I was not advocating their return.
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Old January 10 2014, 06:05 PM   #59
Olive, the Other Reindeer
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

With all this talk of togas, I'm surprised no one's made an Animal House reference yet . . .
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Old January 11 2014, 07:38 AM   #60
FormerLurker
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Re: Catsuits/unitards in our future?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
FormerLurker wrote: View Post
One interesting note:

For about 7000 years, on the job footwear consisted of mid-calf to knee-high boots for men, who worked out of doors, either in farm fields or as soldiers, and sandals for women, who mostly worked indoors.

Some time in the last 200 years, women appropriated the tall boot as a fashion statement, and men were forced to rely on ankle-length laced boots. Today, women wear tall boots sometimes daily, with some women having enough pairs to go a week or more without wearing the same pair twice, but if a man wears tall boots, he either must be in some kind of costume, even if its a competition costume, say dressage, or gay and looking for some action. Men, it seems, are not allowed to wear the tall boots that used to define a man who worked hard out of doors.

My question is, how did this happen?
If you want to wear boots and still be considered an "I work hard out-of-doors" guy, cowboy boots should do the trick.

Of course, it depends on what kind of outdoor work you're referring to. Some guys wear tall rubber boots if the places they're working are particularly muddy, wet, or just plain icky.

As for women and boots... it could have something to do with the hemlines rising after WWI. As the hemlines got higher, it could be that higher boots were a way to preserve some sort of modesty so the women had more freedom of movement but still weren't technically showing "too much leg."

That's just a guess on my part, though.
Cowboy boots are as tall as they get, though. Usually mid-calf. As for the women, plausible.

Gotham Central wrote: View Post

Tall boots were simply functional for the environment in which men worked. Tall boots protected legs/shins in grass lands and fields from brush/plants or modest protection during combat. Note that to this day, combat boots remained fairly tall.

Take away hazards and mens footwear gets shorter and simpler.
But why don't we men get to keep the tall boots for anything but costuming? Even our dressy boots are only ankle length. Yet women can wear tall, knee-length boots in almost any situation. Somehow, it doesn't seem fair. Tall boots are cool.
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