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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old January 8 2014, 04:37 AM   #76
Dick_Valentine
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
jimbotron wrote: View Post
USS Mariner wrote: View Post
I'm sick of the previous remastering efforts essentially destroying history, even in the case of TNG-R, as there is no reason that CG needs to replace the 6 or 4-footer models in any capacity.
No reason at all? None? So instead of the "parking" shot in Unification, you'd be happier with a blank screen or an upscaled shot from the DVD? Come on now.

There hasn't been any CGI used in TNG-R that's just there to be there. It's only been used to replace effects footage that was unusable.
Doesn't matter. I want TNG remastered, not TNG Special Edition. Again, if all the seasons were made in one go (and I'd be happy with an annual release of season packs), they'd likely have found that "lost" footage of the D that they replaced with CG in Season 1.
And I want the writers ideas and imaginations not be limited by 1980s effects houses.

What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander

Spoilers: They fixed the awful FX goof in season 5 where the Enterprise fires it's phasers from the Torpedo tube.
Try not to have a fit of rage.
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Old January 8 2014, 05:37 PM   #77
Savage Dragon
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
jimbotron wrote: View Post
USS Mariner wrote: View Post
I'm sick of the previous remastering efforts essentially destroying history, even in the case of TNG-R, as there is no reason that CG needs to replace the 6 or 4-footer models in any capacity.
No reason at all? None? So instead of the "parking" shot in Unification, you'd be happier with a blank screen or an upscaled shot from the DVD? Come on now.

There hasn't been any CGI used in TNG-R that's just there to be there. It's only been used to replace effects footage that was unusable.
Doesn't matter. I want TNG remastered, not TNG Special Edition.
Recreating a shot in HD to match the old shot which can't be found is hardly a re-imagining of TNG. Let's keep things in perspective here.

I think it's pretty incredible that they've been able to recreate the show so faithfully and been able to find almost all the shots.
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Old January 9 2014, 06:06 AM   #78
Dukhat
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
You've seen TOS-R, right?
Actually, what I have seen of TOS-R, I like. There was some cartoony-looking CGI in some early remastered episodes, but it's my understanding that those particular instances CBS was not happy with the finished product and the later stuff was never that bad.

Snark aside, DS9's fleet scenes always looked that "cartoony" because that was pretty state-of-the-art for TV CGI.
And that was why I mentioned that the fleet scenes would most likely have to be completely redone. I'm just hoping that there will be a bit more variety with the ships, is all.
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Old January 9 2014, 03:16 PM   #79
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
USS Mariner wrote: View Post
You've seen TOS-R, right?
Actually, what I have seen of TOS-R, I like. There was some cartoony-looking CGI in some early remastered episodes, but it's my understanding that those particular instances CBS was not happy with the finished product and the later stuff was never that bad.
As I recall, the change they made was to make the new enterprise was due to the model being too detailed and was taking too long to render (remember this was in 2006), so they had to simplify the model.
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Old January 15 2014, 03:50 AM   #80
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
You've seen TOS-R, right?
Actually -- and this is an important distinction -- TOS was actually remastered, meaning the film master -- original FX and all -- were simply transferred to HD. The new FX are merely optional additions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the remaster. The remaster was finished once the transfer was done, before any CGI was added.
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Old January 16 2014, 05:15 PM   #81
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
jimbotron wrote: View Post
USS Mariner wrote: View Post
I'm sick of the previous remastering efforts essentially destroying history, even in the case of TNG-R, as there is no reason that CG needs to replace the 6 or 4-footer models in any capacity.
No reason at all? None? So instead of the "parking" shot in Unification, you'd be happier with a blank screen or an upscaled shot from the DVD? Come on now.

There hasn't been any CGI used in TNG-R that's just there to be there. It's only been used to replace effects footage that was unusable.
Doesn't matter. I want TNG remastered, not TNG Special Edition. Again, if all the seasons were made in one go (and I'd be happy with an annual release of season packs), they'd likely have found that "lost" footage of the D that they replaced with CG in Season 1.
And I want ALL the stock footage replaced with custom shots, a greater variety of ships to be used rather than the regular Excelsior appearances, better planets, better backgrounds for live action sequences, new screen displays and it all in widescreen. I want everything messed with !

We obviously can't all have what we want...
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Old January 17 2014, 04:06 AM   #82
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Dick_Valentine wrote: View Post
Spoilers: They fixed the awful FX goof in season 5 where the Enterprise fires it's phasers from the Torpedo tube.
Try not to have a fit of rage.
Mistake or not, the original was a really cool shot.
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Old January 17 2014, 05:27 PM   #83
CrazyMatt
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
I'm just hoping that there will be a bit more variety with the ships, is all.
It would be nice to see a Sovereign or two.... it's ridiculous to think Starfleet would keep its most capable combat ships out of major battles such as the retaking of DS9 of the Battle of Chin'toka.
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Old January 17 2014, 06:12 PM   #84
Dukhat
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
I'm just hoping that there will be a bit more variety with the ships, is all.
It would be nice to see a Sovereign or two.... it's ridiculous to think Starfleet would keep its most capable combat ships out of major battles such as the retaking of DS9 of the Battle of Chin'toka.
The original reason why they never used the Sovereign in DS9 was because TPTB were worried that fans would think they were seeing the Enterprise every time, which all I have to say about that is a) who cares if they did, and b) did they really think their fans were that stupid?

A remastering effort shouldn't have to be tied down to that former edict. However, I'd be more interested in seeing new designs, with the exception of the Ambassador class. That ship needed to be seen far more than the four times it appeared in all of Trek.
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Old January 17 2014, 06:32 PM   #85
Jeyl
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
Doesn't matter. I want TNG remastered, not TNG Special Edition. Again, if all the seasons were made in one go (and I'd be happy with an annual release of season packs), they'd likely have found that "lost" footage of the D that they replaced with CG in Season 1.
What makes this a "Special Edition"? The fact that it's in HD is going to make it different from the original no matter how you look at it. If you want it just the way it was, the original DVDs have the Standard Definition, the original DVDs are still available and being being repressed. If there is anything that can be used from the original elements, they're going to use them. I doubt that they replaced that one CG shot of the Enterprise in Season 1 just for the heck of it like Lucas did for a lot of shots in his "Special Editions".
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Old January 17 2014, 10:38 PM   #86
Hober Mallow
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Jeyl wrote: View Post
USS Mariner wrote: View Post
Doesn't matter. I want TNG remastered, not TNG Special Edition. Again, if all the seasons were made in one go (and I'd be happy with an annual release of season packs), they'd likely have found that "lost" footage of the D that they replaced with CG in Season 1.
What makes this a "Special Edition"?
While I don't share USS Mariner's negative view toward TNG-HD, he has a point.

TOS was remastered. A new transfer was made of the film master. Complete episodes were simply transferred from film to digital HD.

TNG doesn't have a film master. It's masters are all on tape, and can never have any more resolution than what we get on DVD. So the actual TNG masters are useless. Brand new masters had to be made by going back to the original elements. Unlike TOS, which was simply transferred from film, TNG is actually being recreated, as closely as possible to the original episode masters, but they are essentially a different product.

Unfortunately, the only other option is to simply do nothing. TNG HD isn't possible with the original episode masters.
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Old January 18 2014, 04:21 AM   #87
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post

Does the entertainment industry think that everybody's made of money or what? Do they know how much it costs to use the Internet in most countries, even (Canada has the most expensive Internet ever)? Not everybody wants or will have the money to go online and watch movies/TV in streaming video; many will still want to own DVD's because there's no compression of the video and audio and things look amazing.

Stephen Bowie has talked about this (and made a better case against this trend) better than I could: Streamageddon vs. Discpocalypse
Despite what some may think, streaming service like NetFlix are NOT the next phase of the Home Entertainment market so much as what will replace cable tv. I have NetFlix, but for me it's how I watch things I didn't see yet and then decide if I want the DVD after. There have been a few titles I bought on DVD thanks to NetFlix, and some I ended up avoiding. I doubt I'm alone there.

As for DS9 (and Voyager and The Animated Series), based on the amazing things I've seen from the Original Series and Next Generation projects, I'm down for it. However, as expensive as they are, I'm ok if it takes a while (Not too long mind you) so I have time to go after TNG and Enterprise. I just barley finished getting the films and TOS on Blu.
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Old January 18 2014, 06:01 AM   #88
M'rk, son of Mogh
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

milojthatch wrote: View Post
Despite what some may think, streaming service like NetFlix are NOT the next phase of the Home Entertainment market so much as what will replace cable tv.
Not to mention the consumer has no control over what's on Netflix (for this example). Things can be added and taken away on a whim and we can't do a thing about it.
But when we own it, we own it completely.
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Old January 18 2014, 10:58 AM   #89
Mage
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
CrazyMatt wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
I'm just hoping that there will be a bit more variety with the ships, is all.
It would be nice to see a Sovereign or two.... it's ridiculous to think Starfleet would keep its most capable combat ships out of major battles such as the retaking of DS9 of the Battle of Chin'toka.
The original reason why they never used the Sovereign in DS9 was because TPTB were worried that fans would think they were seeing the Enterprise every time, which all I have to say about that is a) who cares if they did, and b) did they really think their fans were that stupid?

A remastering effort shouldn't have to be tied down to that former edict. However, I'd be more interested in seeing new designs, with the exception of the Ambassador class. That ship needed to be seen far more than the four times it appeared in all of Trek.

As far as I understood, it had nothing to do with TPTB thinking that fans thought it would be the Enterprise, but with TPTB behind the movies wanted the Sovereign exclusivly for the movies and nothing else.

And in-universe.... Considering that the Enterprise was launched in 2372 and one of the first Sovereigns (appereantly) production on these big and new starships might have been halted during the war, which started late 2373, in favour of smaller ships and putting resources to use for repairing damaged ships, which could then be put back on the front quicker then building a big ships from scratch.
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Old January 18 2014, 12:51 PM   #90
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Re: DS9 on blu ray?

Been away from this thread for a while, although it seems most questions raised have been answered.

That said, here are a few clarifications:

* The new HD render of the U.S.S. Honshu we featured from Rob Bonchune was NOT an example of a finished shot. It was purely an illustration of what you get with minimal time and effort from rendering the original Lightwave scene files in HD. Rob did it on his laptop, with no access to any serious computing power. Plus he did it against a deadline. He himself points out in the comments that there are a million things he'd want to do to make it "Blu-ray standard"

* TNG HD - as already pointed out, CG replacements of the Enterprise are only used when the original footage is lost or damaged. CBS Digital's new model is SO good that when I was visiting them back in May, I couldn't tell the difference between the physical model and their new CG ship.

* TOS HD - It's very difficult to use this as a yardstick anymore. As far as CBS Digital are concerned, this was done a million years ago and they've advanced beyond all recognition since then. I doubt you'll find many people there today who worked on TOS-R who disagree with fans' opinions about a lot of the "toylike" CG.

* @Dick_Valentine - RE: Test Footage. CBS are looking at and talking about DS9. Work on TNG has already progressed well into Season 7 (indeed, film scanning has already been completed). No "green light" for DS9 has been given yet, but they certainly know that fans want the show in HD
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