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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old January 3 2014, 11:54 AM   #61
USS Triumphant
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
At least they could have thrown in a few lines how big that thing actually is (like using the surface of Earth as a reference)
They did. Data said it had a diameter of 200 million kilometers, giving it an internal surface area of approximately 250 million M-class planets.
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Old January 6 2014, 02:20 PM   #62
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

^^ I stand corrected, thanks!

I think I would have expected something like "amazing", "incroyable" or else from Picard but the screenplay writer apparently didn't think this kind of discovery would have merited such a reaction.

What still leaves me puzzled is this:

SCOTT: Well, I was never actually a member of the crew. I was just a passenger. I was heading for Norpin Five to settle down and enjoy my retirement.

I would have thought that the Jenolan was using a well known route but no one ever reported this Dyson Sphere (because it's constructed around a star, I don't think that Dyson Sphere ever changed location ).

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Old January 6 2014, 05:23 PM   #63
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I would have thought that the Jenolan was using a well known route but no one ever reported this Dyson Sphere (because it's constructed around a star, I don't think that Dyson Sphere ever changed location ).
Knowing Scotty, maybe there is another story to be told in here - like perhaps the Jenolan diverted to answer a distress call where he resolved an engineering emergency on the other ship, and thus they were coming at Norpin Five from an unusual direction after that?

I choose to take the crew reaction to the Dyson sphere's size as "stunned awe", although you're right, the script/actors didn't really convey that, did they?
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Old January 6 2014, 05:25 PM   #64
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

Or maybe their reaction to its immensity could be explained similarly to this?:

“...There was no way his imagination could feel the impact of the whole Earth having gone, it was too big. He prodded his feelings by thinking that his parent and his sister had gone. No reaction.He thought of all the people he had been close to. No reaction. Then he thought of a complete stranger he had been standing behind in the queue at the supermarket two days before and felt a sudden stab: the supermarket was gone, everyone in it was gone! Nelson’s Column had gone! and there would be no outcry, because there was no one left to make an outcry! From now on Nelson’s Column only existed in his mind. England only existed in his mind. A wave of claustrophobia closed in on him.
He tried again: America, he thought, has gone. He couldn’t grasp it, He decided to start smaller again. New York has gone. No reaction. He’d never seriously believed it existed anyway. The dollar, he thought, has sunk for ever. Slight tremor there. Every “Bogart” movie has been wiped, he said to himself, and that gave him a nasty knock. McDonald’s, he thought. There is no longer any such thing as a McDonald’s hamburger.
He passed out.”


― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


That sphere was just too bloody big to even fit in their imaginations.
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Old January 6 2014, 10:14 PM   #65
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

Sadly, though, wasn't it revealed that the star at the center of the Dyson's sphere was dying? I suppose it could still be hundreds of thousands or even millions of years away, but it would be interesting to see what happened to the sphere at that point...
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Old January 6 2014, 10:38 PM   #66
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Sadly, though, wasn't it revealed that the star at the center of the Dyson's sphere was dying? I suppose it could still be hundreds of thousands or even millions of years away, but it would be interesting to see what happened to the sphere at that point...
It would be even more interesting to collect all of the energy from the surface and channel it into replicating creamy nougat to replace the star with.
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Old January 6 2014, 10:44 PM   #67
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

USS Triumphant wrote: View Post
LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Sadly, though, wasn't it revealed that the star at the center of the Dyson's sphere was dying? I suppose it could still be hundreds of thousands or even millions of years away, but it would be interesting to see what happened to the sphere at that point...
It would be even more interesting to collect all of the energy from the surface and channel it into replicating creamy nougat to replace the star with.
The more I'm thinking about this, the gigglier I'm getting. Imagine it: you connect replicators to the interior surface to run off the power collected from the star. First, they replicate replicators until they've spread out across the whole interior surface, then, they switch to producing nougat, non-stop. And then... you just leave it. Leave it, and never come back. Don't even keep it in the logs.

In 10,000 years, some other interstellar civilization comes across it, and are all "My Zarquon! What kind of civilization could have built such a thing?" Then, they get the door open, and read that the entire inside is filled with nougat, and it changes to "What kind of civilization WOULD have built such a thing?!"
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Old January 6 2014, 10:56 PM   #68
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

Turning a 200 million kilometer Dyson Sphere into a giant snack...
Just imaging the size of the being who could eat such a thing
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Old January 6 2014, 11:18 PM   #69
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

Richard Baker wrote: View Post
Turning a 200 million kilometer Dyson Sphere into a giant snack...
Just imaging the size of the being who could eat such a thing
A special treat just for Galactus or Unicron for Valentymes Day.
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Old January 7 2014, 03:32 PM   #70
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

Why would a civilisation so incredibly advanced choose a dying star to build such a structure? Like others, I find the idea of a Dyson Sphere fascinating and would have loved to have seen the exploration of it spread across a couple of episodes with or without the talents of a legendary Starfleet engineer to help.
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Old January 7 2014, 05:51 PM   #71
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

LMFAOschwarz wrote: View Post
Sadly, though, wasn't it revealed that the star at the center of the Dyson's sphere was dying? I suppose it could still be hundreds of thousands or even millions of years away, but it would be interesting to see what happened to the sphere at that point...
IIRC it wasn't dying so much as it was just going into a phase of higher radiation, like more intense solar flares or something. Now our own sun does this from time-to-time and it's relatively okay we absorb a tiny part of it considering our profile vs. the sun's influence even considering what is absorbed by the ozone layer. But with the Dyson Sphere every inch of the surface is impacted. At once. Not just the part facing the sun as is the case with Earth. And not just that tiny percentage compared to the sun's surface, but EVERYTHING.

Presumably the surface of the sphere would have had sufficient shields to act as an ozone layer but was only capable of "so much" and some may have still gotten through as the sun went into a more intense phase.

What's astonishing, really, that's impossible to wrap your head around is how utterly fantastically, colossally, fucking HUGE this thing is.

IIRC the Enterprise, and even the Jenolan, finding this thing was pretty much "luck", so to speak. It was so big and generating so much gravity it overloaded the sensors making it almost undetectable. From the book, again IIRC, the Jenolan didn't even find it enroute to Norpin V and just happened to detect it and diverted to investigate it when it got trapped. When other ships make the (presumably) routine trip between nearby planets to the retirement planet it could be passing by the sphere at warp and doesn't pick it up. It just took being at the exact right place at the exact right time at the exact right speed for the sensors do deal with this 180 million mile wide sphere.
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Old January 8 2014, 01:13 AM   #72
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

Bringing back Scotty for an episode was not an idea I would've listened to if I were in Rick Berman's shoes - I would've outright rejected it. But ... imagine if Jimmy Doohan had secured a recurring - almost regular - guest spot on NEXT GENERATION! Seriously, if this episode was something other than how defunct Scotty was in the future, or if there had been some kind of surprise follow-up, where he proved to be an asset to have around, it might've been sufferable to see Jimmy dipping from the STAR TREK well, whenever he felt like it. As shallow and undeveloped as Scotty always was, I can see how it would've benefitted him, but ... this show's called THE NEXT GENERATION for a reason, so ... maybe he should've just counted his blessings, at that point. And probably did!
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Old January 8 2014, 01:25 AM   #73
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
Bringing back Scotty for an episode was not an idea I would've listened to if I were in Rick Berman's shoes - I would've outright rejected it.
Except that "Sarek" and "Unification" had been good for ratings and lots of free publicity. So, despite early claims that TNG would never delve into crossovers after the Admiral McCoy cameo in "Farpoint", we got several more. And lots of time travel stories, and then lots of Borg episodes, and lots of Brent Spiner playing multiple parts. Because they were all well-received.
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Old January 8 2014, 01:40 AM   #74
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

But....but....were they well-received by Therin of Andor?
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Old January 8 2014, 01:48 AM   #75
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Re: 'Relics': missed opportunity?

billcosby wrote: View Post
Relics is a fun little 42 minute romp.
The Real TNG missed opportunity was Reunification.

Bringing Spock back - yes.
Hanging out in caves the entire time - no.
Yup. The purpose behind any crossover is to show the original character doing his thing in a new setting and interacting with a new cast.

"Unification" was about Spock dicking around in some caves.

"Relics" was about Scotty solving an engineering problem with his TNG counterpart and trying his best to fit in to a new century.

Relics was the perfect crossover.
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