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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

View Poll Results: Nemesis
Excellent 3 1.60%
Good 31 16.58%
Average 48 25.67%
Bad 49 26.20%
Terrible 56 29.95%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 4 2014, 12:09 AM   #46
BillJ
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post

(Heck, I was a college kid when TMP and TWOK came out! Didn't stop me from seeing them multiple times with all my college friends.)
I was in third-grade...
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Old January 4 2014, 12:21 AM   #47
Greg Cox
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

(Heck, I was a college kid when TMP and TWOK came out! Didn't stop me from seeing them multiple times with all my college friends.)
I was in third-grade...
You're just trying to make me feel old, aren't you?

Hell, I was well out of college and had been immersed in fandom for years by the time TNG and all the latter-day Trek series came along.
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Old January 4 2014, 12:26 AM   #48
J. Allen
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

(Heck, I was a college kid when TMP and TWOK came out! Didn't stop me from seeing them multiple times with all my college friends.)
I was in third-grade...
You're just trying to make me feel old, aren't you?

Hell, I was well out of college and had been immersed in fandom for years by the time TNG and all the latter-day Trek series came along.
I was 2 when TWOK premiered. Just, you know, adding some perspective.
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Old January 4 2014, 12:34 AM   #49
Greg Cox
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

I was in third-grade...
You're just trying to make me feel old, aren't you?

Hell, I was well out of college and had been immersed in fandom for years by the time TNG and all the latter-day Trek series came along.
I was 2 when TWOK premiered. Just, you know, adding some perspective.
Dare I admit that I've been watching Trek since it first aired on NBC?

But, to get back on-topic, college is when I first really discovered fandom in a big way, started attending conventions, meeting folks like Theodore Sturgeon and Robert Wise, and got serious about writing this stuff. So why wouldn't we want to target the next generation of bright, enthusiastic college kids?
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Old January 4 2014, 12:41 AM   #50
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

I was only born five minutes ago, so can all you old folks tell me if this Nemesis film of which you speak is any good?
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Old January 4 2014, 12:54 AM   #51
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Nemesis had some good ideas: Riker & Troi marry and leave the Enterprise, cool. They fail to get off at their stop, so they're there for the whole show, not so cool. Gratuitous psychic rape scene, not cool. Was that just in there so we could have Troi hold hands with Worf to get that revenge shot later in the movie?
Detecting a positronic android from parsecs away? So having Data onboard means the Romulans can find the Enterprise from across the galaxy? Finding out later that that the Romulans planted B4 there was still not enough explanation, and clearly the main reason for B4's existence was so an aging actor would have an explanation for why his character started looking old just in case there was ever a new TNG movie. As soon as that tidbit came out, I expected Data to be damaged to the point Geordi would transplant his positronic brain into B4's body at the end of the movie.
So they go to the trap, I mean Kolarus III. Anything like Belarus? It's a desert, with stereotypical ragtag nomadic badguys, and instead of beaming down, we get a cool new shuttle and a kewl new dune-buggy. Hmmmm. The generic ragged thugs chase them, they get away, nobody seriously questions how the android got there, who sicced the aliens on them, or how they detected the android from so far away.
Some Romulan politics - not bad, not great. Then the E-E goes to Romulus - ok, it helps credibility that they are asked for. Shinzon is not a bad idea, but poorly executed. Giving him a critically short time to live was lame. Nor does it make sense that he had to kill Picard to save his life. Now, saying his aging was messed up, and he needed a sample of Picard's blood to replicate to fix his DNA so he stops aging abnormally fast, but has a few years to work with - that i could have bought. What we got was too blatantly, artificially constricting, and robbed the character of any sense of being a dark mirror to Picard.
Nosferatu Remans? Logan should've been shot for that infraction alone. Donatra went from being a toady to a heroine with little explanation. Shinzon's great plan wasn't. Why does he want a war? How did they build this monstrosity with nobody knowing? Why did they use this uber-evil weaponized radiation so heavily? All clumsy, pointless ratcheting up of the threat without making sense. And then Shinzon takes a shine to Troi.
SMDH. One more failure, and bigger than all the others. TNG has never had a good movie, IMO, but Generations came closest to not failing.
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Old January 4 2014, 01:16 AM   #52
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

inflatabledalek wrote: View Post
I was only born five minutes ago, so can all you old folks tell me if this Nemesis film of which you speak is any good?
Don't worry about it. You'll be just the right age for the next reboot.
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Old January 4 2014, 01:26 AM   #53
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Dare I admit that I've been watching Trek since it first aired on NBC?
Dare. Dare!

But, to get back on-topic, college is when I first really discovered fandom in a big way, started attending conventions, meeting folks like Theodore Sturgeon and Robert Wise, and got serious about writing this stuff. So why wouldn't we want to target the next generation of bright, enthusiastic college kids?
Exactly. We should want to fire up the minds of high school and college kids, make them want to become engineers, and scientists. Inspire them to want to write new and fantastic stories about worlds we can only imagine. It goes hand in hand, and it's how a society prospers. It's amazing what a good movie with a good story can do.
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Old January 4 2014, 11:56 AM   #54
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

NEMESIS is very poorly written. It's shocking to me that John Logan continues to pat himself on the back for having written it. The bad outweighs the good in this flick, as its issues are many:

- The convenience of Shinzon - inexplicably - finding yet ANOTHER of Data's "brothers" for use against the good ship ENTERPRISE (aren't there any other androids/android makers in the galaxy?).

- Shinzon's existance explained only enough to service the story, such as it is. How Picard's DNA was obtained, on what mission and by which Romulan(s) is a complete mystery, although Shinzon knows plenty enough about every other aspect of his origins.

- The Romulan chick who was perfectly happy to provide Earth with a dusting of Thaylaron Radiation only turns her cheek when Shinzon (cruelly) rejects her. NOW, she's this open-minded, tolerant Romulan we are meant to be in support of, because she teams up with ENT-E to kick that same Shinzon's ass ... and because she's cute, I guess.

- Worf's being at his post makes no sense ... whatsoever ... considering what we know about his situation from DS9, and like everything else that's just "thrown in," is left a complete mystery.

The CGI nature of most of the effects is obsenely apparent and the sound effects suck - especially for the quantum torpedoes, which "splat" when they hit. And worst of all, the TNG cast - especially Marina and Gates - are allowed to look like they were rode hard and hung up wet. The ladies look like shit. It's inexcusable, considering the youthifying treatments Kirk and company were given in TMP.
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Old January 4 2014, 05:15 PM   #55
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Perhaps Nemesis' worst legacy is that its failure drove Tom Hardy into a downward spiral of addiction and depression that nearly killed him.
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Old January 4 2014, 05:30 PM   #56
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Hardy was an abuser since age 16.
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Old January 4 2014, 05:50 PM   #57
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Perhaps Nemesis' worst legacy is that its failure drove Tom Hardy into a downward spiral of addiction and depression that nearly killed him.
I like Tom Hardy, I think he's a good actor. But I never bought that his addiction/depression was caused by Nemesis.
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Old January 4 2014, 06:29 PM   #58
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Tosk wrote: View Post
Hardy was an abuser since age 16.
And he had been in trouble with the law since 13.
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Old January 4 2014, 07:00 PM   #59
M'rk, son of Mogh
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

2takesfrakes wrote: View Post
NEMESIS is very poorly written. It's shocking to me that John Logan continues to pat himself on the back for having written it. The bad outweighs the good in this flick, as its issues are many:

- The convenience of Shinzon - inexplicably - finding yet ANOTHER of Data's "brothers" for use against the good ship ENTERPRISE (aren't there any other androids/android makers in the galaxy?).

- Shinzon's existance explained only enough to service the story, such as it is. How Picard's DNA was obtained, on what mission and by which Romulan(s) is a complete mystery, although Shinzon knows plenty enough about every other aspect of his origins.

- The Romulan chick who was perfectly happy to provide Earth with a dusting of Thaylaron Radiation only turns her cheek when Shinzon (cruelly) rejects her. NOW, she's this open-minded, tolerant Romulan we are meant to be in support of, because she teams up with ENT-E to kick that same Shinzon's ass ... and because she's cute, I guess.

- Worf's being at his post makes no sense ... whatsoever ... considering what we know about his situation from DS9, and like everything else that's just "thrown in," is left a complete mystery.

The CGI nature of most of the effects is obsenely apparent and the sound effects suck - especially for the quantum torpedoes, which "splat" when they hit. And worst of all, the TNG cast - especially Marina and Gates - are allowed to look like they were rode hard and hung up wet. The ladies look like shit. It's inexcusable, considering the youthifying treatments Kirk and company were given in TMP.
This is almost all just superficial nitpicking. Would a single line of how they got Picard's DNA really have improved the movie? Or changed anything at all? That has nothing to do with the story at all. They have it. They cloned him. Move on, the rest is detail that doesn't change a thing. Or having Worf say "Being a diplomat is not for me so I applied to come back to the Enterprise" suddenly makes Nemesis great?

It's also obvious that people are looking for something just to hate one when they even complain about the effects, which, even if you hate the movie, really are very well done.

Often times, sure, the complaints are justified, but sometimes (and I'm not directing this at you, 2takes) it seems some fans are just saying "This isn't exactly how I like my movies and they should have made it to please only me!" and it comes across as a bit juvenile and selfish. Especially once we talk about how the Romulans were involved and the movie people WANTED with them, which was never shown or intended, which is an incredibly unfair criticism.
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Old January 4 2014, 07:40 PM   #60
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Re: Why Is Nemesis Unpopular?

Tosk wrote: View Post
Hardy was an abuser since age 16.
And it ultimately turned him into Bane?
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