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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old January 2 2014, 10:10 AM   #16
Infern0
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

If they updated the weapons to like auto-cycle through frequencies, then you could see how they could do that level of damage.
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Old January 2 2014, 07:16 PM   #17
Borjis
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

if you watch any of the extras on the disc it explains the Enterprise E was fitted with upgraded weapons specifically to deal with the Borg.

The quantum torpedos in particular, where made to deal with them. Notice how they do severe damage to the cube and obliterate the orb firing on Montana?
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Old January 3 2014, 05:02 PM   #18
inflatabledalek
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

I actually like after have several years to study and prepare (not just for the Borg of course, IIRC they've had a Jem'hedar ship to play with for a little while as well by this point too), Star Fleet is able to put up a more cohesive fight than before and basically wear the Borg down. They're still tough and it takes a lot to hurt them, but they can still be hurt.

It's just a shame Picard doesn't just put the extra kicker in the work the fleet has already done rather than pulling magic voices out of his head.
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Old January 3 2014, 07:01 PM   #19
GotNoRice
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

By the time the Enterprise-E got there, the Cube had been in a running battle with the fleet for quite some time. Yet despite that, it almost certainly still would have made it to earth had the Enterprise not intervened.

I certainly got the impression that Picard heard the borg discussing a damaged area/vulnerability and that is where he got his info from, not something he could have put in a briefing ahead of time. There were several occasions where it was mentioned that only a fraction of his implants were removed.
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Old January 3 2014, 07:06 PM   #20
BillJ
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

GotNoRice wrote: View Post
There were several occasions where it was mentioned that only a fraction of his implants were removed.
When? I've been watching Trek for a really long time and have never heard any dialogue to that effect.

And if that was the case, it would be silly for Starfleet to put Picard in command of a starship (the most advanced one in the fleet) that could be used against the Federation.
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Old January 7 2014, 08:51 PM   #21
vulcan redshirt
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

Most likely a combination of new weaponry, tactical info from Picard and also, something the fleet had not been doing before, which was concentrating all their fire to one spot, rather than just firing at whatever part of the cube was easiest.
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Old January 7 2014, 09:44 PM   #22
Tyberius
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

BillJ wrote: View Post
And if that was the case, it would be silly for Starfleet to put Picard in command of a starship (the most advanced one in the fleet) that could be used against the Federation.
This was a plot point in the movie.
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Old January 7 2014, 10:07 PM   #23
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

Tyberius wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
And if that was the case, it would be silly for Starfleet to put Picard in command of a starship (the most advanced one in the fleet) that could be used against the Federation.
This was a plot point in the movie.
I know, but it was stupid to put someone you believe could be compromised in command of your most technologically advanced assets. If the Borg still had a link, then they know everything you've developed and can prepare accordingly.
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Old January 8 2014, 01:21 AM   #24
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

I just made a post in another thread about the inconsistecies between the "Q who" Borg and these. This thread made me notice another: in "Q Who" there were no weak points in the Borg cube. Now they invent one. Yas, I know, it was needed to advance the plot, yadda yadda.

I don't like FC.
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Old February 1 2014, 06:39 PM   #25
Smellmet
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

I've just watched it for the first time in a number of years (having a rewatch of the TNG movies - GF has never seen them) and boy has the film dated, still really enjoy it in almost a quaint fashion - the same way I look at TOS which was a surprise, it actually looks like an older film than Generations which I wasn't expecting, the sets on the Enterprise E look positively ugly compared to the D, which is a shame. It's still one of the better Trek films, but I no longer regard it the step up from the previous movie that it was heralded at the time, just different.

With regards to the question - I think it's been answered correctly in the thread already - they've had 8 years to prepare for the Borg and have developed weapons to try and deal with the threat.
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Old March 9 2014, 09:41 PM   #26
trekshark
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

BillJ wrote: View Post
AgentDreidel wrote: View Post
It's not until Picard takes over the fleet and orders everyone to concentrate fire on what he knows to be a weak point that the cube starts taking heavy damage.
Seems like Picard would've pointed out that weakness during some tactical briefing during the years between the two Borg invasions?
although the writer's intent was probably that picard was either using his memory from when he was locutus or something from his partial re-connection to the collective to pick the target, I think that simply concentrating all the ships' fire unto the same spot is what worked. It didn't matter where they concentrated, just that they finally did.
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Old March 9 2014, 10:37 PM   #27
Synnöve
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

I think what you're noticing here is what's known as a bad script.

The film is so full of holes and none-sense plot lines, it's hopeless to try and wring every inconsistency out of it. First Contact is enjoyable of course thanks to Frakes' direction, the effects, and production design, but as with all TNG films the script is very much below par.

Last edited by Synnöve; March 10 2014 at 02:01 AM.
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Old March 10 2014, 01:19 AM   #28
Clark Terrell
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

AgentCoop wrote: View Post
Well, first of all, by the time we get to FC Starfleet has had several years to develop new weapons and tactics for use against the Borg. They've known since The Best Of Both Worlds that it was just a matter of time before the Borg attempted another invasion.

Even so, however, the Starfleet weapons don't seem to be making much of a dent in the cube until the Enterprise-E shows up. It's not until Picard takes over the fleet and orders everyone to concentrate fire on what he knows to be a weak point that the cube starts taking heavy damage.
Precisely. Picard's prior experience with the Borg made destroying the cube much easier than it would have been otherwise, ironic considering that Starfleet didn't want him to be part of the fleet for that exact reason.
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Old March 12 2014, 09:44 AM   #29
Timo
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

Also note that it's not just a spot that Picard specifies for the attack - it's also a moment. Several starships are destroyed and hundreds or thousands of people die while Picard tells the fleet to wait for it, wait for it, NOW!...

This fits well with what we know of the Borg and their technology. There are no weak spots. Why? Because everything is decentralized and rerouted around damage. The target keeps moving - the bridge is here now, there at the next moment. But if you are part of the Collective, like Locutus is, then you can tell how and when things are moving. And then you can fire smack in the middle of where a weakness will be at the time of impact.

Sure, they thought they had taken Locutus out of Picard. But that would not be consistent: several other episodes show Federation medicine can't remove even much coarser bits of instrumentation from a brain without killing the patient. The Borg nanogoo in this movie causes large metal objects to pop through the skin eventually. Surely it would also be plausible for the unnoticeably thin goo to hide in Picard's blood for a few years, then suddenly assemble into a tiny subspace transceiver somewhere inside him (and again dissolve after no longer needed).

As for "old" weapons still having an effect, it must be a question of magnitude to some degree. The Borg may adapt so that a Drone can shrug off a hand phaser beam, but it doesn't follow that a Drone could then shrug off twenty starship main battery beams of that exact same sort...

OTOH, we have to consider that the Borg don't wear their adaptations all the time. The first few Drones always succumb even to "old" weapons before the Collective decides it's had enough of this and adapts. It's just that the Collective can afford to lose a couple of Drones in every firefight. It can no doubt also afford to lose a few square meters of hull plating for the same noble purpose of finding out more about the enemy weapons and tactics. Except, that is, when there's a Quisling telling the enemy how to fatally exploit the magnanimously donated square meters.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old March 12 2014, 10:16 PM   #30
Dale Sams
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Re: First contact borg inconsistency?

vulcan redshirt wrote: View Post
Most likely a combination of new weaponry, tactical info from Picard and also, something the fleet had not been doing before, which was concentrating all their fire to one spot, rather than just firing at whatever part of the cube was easiest.
Had Wesley been there he'd have said, "Focus Fire.....derrrr..."
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