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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 30 2013, 12:32 AM   #196
Devon
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
OK I haven't read the 10+pages of posts on this thread, but Khan's identity was a secret? IMDB.com had Cumberbatch playing Khan from the get-go. This was later changed to John Harrison, but IMO the cat was out of the bag.
IMDB is user edited, like Wiki. Someone out there submitted that were going off the same kind of blind speculation anyone else was. It was a "good guess."
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Old December 30 2013, 12:39 AM   #197
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

I thought Commander John Harrison was more interesting than whitewashed Khan.
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Old December 30 2013, 03:53 AM   #198
The Wormhole
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
OK I haven't read the 10+pages of posts on this thread, but Khan's identity was a secret? IMDB.com had Cumberbatch playing Khan from the get-go. This was later changed to John Harrison, but IMO the cat was out of the bag.
IMDB is not ever to be trusted as a source of info for forthcoming movies. This was the rare time when someone posted a rumour there that turned out to be a fact.

Cumberbatch was never officially revealed by Bad Robot to be playing Khan prior to the movie's release. In fact, for ten months after he was cast nothing was given in regards to who he was playing, then it was revealed to be "John Harrison."

Everyone guessed he was Khan anyway, but Bad Robot attempted to keep it a secret regardless.
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Old December 30 2013, 02:49 PM   #199
JarodRussell
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Everyone knew it was going to be Khan because the writers are very predictable.
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Old December 30 2013, 03:52 PM   #200
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

ROBE wrote: View Post
I thought Commander John Harrison was more interesting than whitewashed Khan.
Agree. All that would be needed is for a tweak to the 'people in the torpedoes' plot point, and Khan could be effectively written out of the movie.
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Old December 30 2013, 04:51 PM   #201
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

I know I keep posting this, but it's so true and so appropriate.
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Old December 31 2013, 12:55 AM   #202
Hober Mallow
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Devon wrote: View Post
austen_pierce wrote: View Post
OK I haven't read the 10+pages of posts on this thread, but Khan's identity was a secret? IMDB.com had Cumberbatch playing Khan from the get-go. This was later changed to John Harrison, but IMO the cat was out of the bag.
IMDB is user edited, like Wiki. Someone out there submitted that were going off the same kind of blind speculation anyone else was. It was a "good guess."
True, although John Harrison's identity was definitely spoiled before the film's domestic release by reviews of the world premiere.
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Old December 31 2013, 02:53 AM   #203
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I know I keep posting this, but it's so true and so appropriate.
How would John Harrison (before writers changed him into Khan) have been another rip-off?
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Old December 31 2013, 03:31 AM   #204
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Every time I see the title of this thread I see...
J.J. keeps admitting, keeping Khans identity a secret was a Mistake...
Is that happening to anyone else?
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Old December 31 2013, 07:35 AM   #205
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

austen_pierce wrote: View Post
ROBE wrote: View Post
I thought Commander John Harrison was more interesting than whitewashed Khan.
Agree. All that would be needed is for a tweak to the 'people in the torpedoes' plot point, and Khan could be effectively written out of the movie.
They could have kept him as John Harrison, maybe reveal that he was one of Khan's followers instead and rather than 72 people in torpedoes it could have been 3 or 4 out of many and instead of his "people" inside (who we never meet) it could have been his wife and children. It would have upped the stakes for Harrison, create more empathy from the audience and make Marcus look like that much more of a dickbag. It would have been a slight nod to TWOK by making Harrison simply a disciple of Khan rather than the headbutting we got instead.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the movie, I simply think it could have been better had the writers been a bit more creative.
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Old December 31 2013, 07:46 AM   #206
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Flux Capacitor wrote: View Post
It would have been a slight nod to TWOK by making Harrison simply a disciple of Khan rather than...
That sort of writers trick always disappoints me. I get the impression that the writer isn't brave enough to meet the real force head on and tackle the subject. He has to use the weaker sidekick as an excuse to not try as hard. It's like a movie about someone who knew Satan and tried to cause a little trouble in His name instead of a movie about Satan himself. We'd miss out on a lot of spectacle and the villain is too easy to beat. So a disciple, for me, would have been even more disappointing than recycled Khan because I'd believe the writers were afraid they weren't creative enough to handle Khan. If you're going to name drop Satan or Khan, at least have the courage to look him in the eyes and deal with him directly.
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Old December 31 2013, 08:39 AM   #207
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

Well, IMO, they weren't creative enough. And I still think a British, pale Khan is a bit too much of a suspension of my disbelief. They wouldn't have even had to come right out and say it, there could have been subtle hints like name dropping the Botany Bay or something along those lines. It wouldn't be avoiding the big guy for lack of courage, it would be avoiding a rehash while providing a fresh, new character to what was supposed to be a fresh, new reboot.
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Old December 31 2013, 11:30 AM   #208
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

^Khan was made in a lab. His skin colour could be a a whim of his (Indian?) creators, or just a fluke. IMO he was just tanned in "Space Seed" - since Montelban is as white as Cumberbatch in Wrath of Khan (they dropped his fake Indian makeup between appearences)

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I know I keep posting this, but it's so true and so appropriate.
How would John Harrison (before writers changed him into Khan) have been another rip-off?
In the same way anyone with a personal issue with one of the characters is considered a Khan rip-off (Shinzon?)

The accent may have been different, but the way Cumberbatch chewed scenery and talked about "walking over their cold corpses" and saying grandiose things like "after all... no ship should go down without her captain!" would have begged for comparisons to "From hell's heart, I stab at thee!" and the rest of Montelkhan's OTT spiel.
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Old December 31 2013, 02:46 PM   #209
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
^Khan was made in a lab. His skin colour could be a a whim of his (Indian?) creators, or just a fluke. IMO he was just tanned in "Space Seed" - since Montelban is as white as Cumberbatch in Wrath of Khan (they dropped his fake Indian makeup between appearences)

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I know I keep posting this, but it's so true and so appropriate.
How would John Harrison (before writers changed him into Khan) have been another rip-off?
In the same way anyone with a personal issue with one of the characters is considered a Khan rip-off (Shinzon?)

The accent may have been different, but the way Cumberbatch chewed scenery and talked about "walking over their cold corpses" and saying grandiose things like "after all... no ship should go down without her captain!" would have begged for comparisons to "From hell's heart, I stab at thee!" and the rest of Montelkhan's OTT spiel.

You can consider Nero a Khan knockoff as well.
Nero has a vendetta against Spock.
Nero blames Spock for not saving Romulus.
Nero blames Spock for the death of his wife and child.
Nero uses his uber-ship to cripple the Enterprise.
Nero uses slugs to torture and extract information from a hostage.
Kirk and Spock use a strategy to outwit and destroy Nero, his crew and his ship.

Nero is more of a Khan ripoff than Shinzon. Shizon's Khan traits were having a personal jealousy against Picard and having a battle in the Bassen Rift (Mutara Nebula) against the Enterprise.
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Old December 31 2013, 03:26 PM   #210
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Re: J.J. admits keeping Khan's identity a secret was a mistake

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I know I keep posting this, but it's so true and so appropriate.
No way, man. My glasses are square.
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