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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old December 28 2013, 07:17 PM   #16
JD5000
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

To me, Bareil was "creepy" because the show introduces him as a deeply spiritual man with benevolent political ambitions. He is essentially a monk, which have the stereotype of celibate people with a spiritual connection, in this case to The Prophets. Once he starts trying to get into Kira's pants as much as possible, we lose that perspective of him - almost as if he's betraying something that should be the first concern in his life before all others. Not that I have a strong belief in celibacy for most people - but that is the impression his character gave me when he was first introduced.

Also, the plot of "Life Support" is inherently creepy, having half a cybernetic brain keep Bareil alive like some sort of robot zombie. That wasn't his fault, though.
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Old January 20 2014, 02:32 PM   #17
Dal Rassak
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

I agree that it would have been nice to have some more interesting Bajoran males that didn't get killed off or just appeared for a couple episodes. I don't think it strictly necessary; but it would have added something interesting. With Kira such a stong and fiery character, and Winn a poisonous bitch, a lot of the male characters seem a bit flat and tame by comparison.

That said, I actually really liked the character of Bareil. I've said this elsewhere; I just don't get that he's meant to come over as "creepy". He never did to me. I found him instantly sympathetic and he seemed strong to me, just a quiet sort of strength that rests in itself; not lashing out in a temper. I saw him as kind, serene and quite dignified but with a hidden little glint of mischief.
I also liked the fact they wrote him as a cleric but one with anti-authoritarian attitudes who doesn't accept dogma just on say-so.
I think a little bit more could have been done with that.
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Old January 20 2014, 05:14 PM   #18
DonIago
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Like I said above, I think any Bareil creepiness may have been due more to the actor than to creative intent.
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Old January 21 2014, 03:47 PM   #19
Dal Rassak
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

huh, I actually thouht Philip Anselm played he part rather well. ~shrugs~
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Old January 21 2014, 05:30 PM   #20
CommanderRaytas
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Bareil isn't creepy - he's the only Bajoran guy I actually like. Everyone else is either fanatic, racist, annoying, or preachy.
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Old January 21 2014, 06:26 PM   #21
AgentCoop
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Bareil was never interesting enough to be creepy.
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Old January 26 2014, 01:48 AM   #22
milquetoast
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
Jaro was good as the corrupt politician.
Jaro is awesome cause well...Frank Langella! And I thought him and Winn played a deliciously evil couple that I had hoped continued but sadly no more of Jaro.

DonIago wrote: View Post
I agree that Bareil's portrayal was a bit odd. I wonder how much of that was the actor's choices and how much responsibility falls elsewhere..
- That voice gets me every time. I'd like to think that's the actor's idea of serene and calm but it (to me at least) comes off quite strange in part, due to none of the other vedeks not sounding like that. It seems so out of place.
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Old May 27 2014, 06:26 PM   #23
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

I didn't feel that all the Bajoran men were creepy. I found that most of them were not as interesting and fleshed out as some of the women. I did find Bariel strange at times with his weird robot voice.
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Old May 27 2014, 07:16 PM   #24
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

milquetoast wrote: View Post
I didn't feel that all the Bajoran men were creepy. I found that most of them were not as interesting and fleshed out as some of the women. I did find Bariel strange at times with his weird robot voice.
Perhaps the real problem was that all the good Bajoran men were used up too quickly. The Circle story could have been spread out over the whole second season rather than presented serially in three back-to-back episodes.
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Old May 27 2014, 08:56 PM   #25
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

To be fair, by Trek standards a 3-part episode was unprecedented at the time. A season-long arc was likely more than anyone would have hoped for.
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Old May 27 2014, 09:46 PM   #26
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

DonIago wrote: View Post
To be fair, by Trek standards a 3-part episode was unprecedented at the time. A season-long arc was likely more than anyone would have hoped for.
Yes, but I was not suggesting a season-long arc, but rather that the story be spread out and revisited throughout the season.
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Old May 27 2014, 11:14 PM   #27
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

It did often seem in the series that cultural gender expectations were reversed relative to Earth. Maybe not at the beginning but after the second season it seemed all Bajoran women were aggressive and ambitious and all Bajoran men were sort of passive and demure, like reversed gender stereotypes.

If Bajoran men seemed creepy it was because the actors couldn't quite figure out how to portray that.
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Old May 28 2014, 02:39 AM   #28
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
To be fair, by Trek standards a 3-part episode was unprecedented at the time. A season-long arc was likely more than anyone would have hoped for.
Yes, but I was not suggesting a season-long arc, but rather that the story be spread out and revisited throughout the season.
...that would be a season-long arc, unless we're misunderstanding each other.
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Old May 28 2014, 03:11 AM   #29
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

JD5000 wrote: View Post
To me, Bareil was "creepy" because the show introduces him as a deeply spiritual man with benevolent political ambitions. He is essentially a monk, which have the stereotype of celibate people with a spiritual connection, in this case to The Prophets. Once he starts trying to get into Kira's pants as much as possible, we lose that perspective of him - almost as if he's betraying something that should be the first concern in his life before all others. Not that I have a strong belief in celibacy for most people - but that is the impression his character gave me when he was first introduced.
Most mainstream religions other than Catholicism allow their religious officials to marry. And IIRC Kira was the primary aggressor. When Quark was manipulating them together his approach was more like 'Aww shucks I'd sure like to spend some time with you Nerys'.
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Old May 28 2014, 03:59 AM   #30
Bad Thoughts
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Re: Creepy Bajoran Men

DonIago wrote: View Post
Bad Thoughts wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
To be fair, by Trek standards a 3-part episode was unprecedented at the time. A season-long arc was likely more than anyone would have hoped for.
Yes, but I was not suggesting a season-long arc, but rather that the story be spread out and revisited throughout the season.
...that would be a season-long arc, unless we're misunderstanding each other.
One episode on the circle, four of five on something else, one on the Circle, three or four on something else, and so on. As I said, not back-to-back.
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