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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old December 16 2013, 12:18 AM   #31
JarodRussell
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

One of the reasons I don't like Voyager that much. Picard made first contact with Q AND the Borg. That was the whole point!
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Old December 18 2013, 09:53 AM   #32
Merry Christmas
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

Frankincense + Myrrh wrote: View Post
Zephram met informally with the Captain of a exploration ship, that was considered "First Contact."
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
From Memory-Alpha:
The term first contact describes the first official encounter between representatives of two races or governments.
Sounds like Memory Alpha screwed it up again.

With that said, even though Picard met with a single individual, that individual revealed the nature of his government and race as an official representative of the Continuum (the trial being a very important part of the episode's plot -- trials are judiciary, which is a government institution), and that meeting led to further encounters between their two governments, albeit usually through the same representative.
I've never been under the impression than Q was a representative of his "government." He comes off as a sadistic individual that his own people barely tolerate.




Last edited by Merry Christmas; December 18 2013 at 10:03 AM.
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Old December 27 2013, 10:34 PM   #33
Avro Arrow
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

Frankincense + Myrrh wrote: View Post
I've never been under the impression than Q was a representative of his "government." He comes off as a sadistic individual that his own people barely tolerate.
Yes, a politician. That's what Cyke101 said.

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Old December 27 2013, 10:43 PM   #34
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
Frankincense + Myrrh wrote: View Post
I've never been under the impression than Q was a representative of his "government." He comes off as a sadistic individual that his own people barely tolerate.
Yes, a politician. That's what Cyke101 said.

I never knew the Q Continuum had their own US Congress! *ba-dam-tss!*

~~~~~

Frankincense + Myrrh wrote: View Post
Frankincense + Myrrh wrote: View Post
Zephram met informally with the Captain of a exploration ship, that was considered "First Contact."
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Sounds like Memory Alpha screwed it up again.
How so, exactly? If you're referencing Zephram Cochrane as first contact, then why discount T'Pol or Spock or Tuvok's traveling back in time then? They, like Amanda's parents, hid their true nature from humanity. First Contact the movie even establishes that Vulcans knew about humanity but thought they were too primitive to meet officially until Cochrane invented warp drive -- which lead to official first contact. It seems inconsistent to not count pre-warp Vulcan interaction as first contact, but trying to create Amanda's parents living incognito (pre-Farpoint) as official first contact. Vulcans were observing in secret just as the Q were, but it wasn't until everyone was made aware of the other's full presence could their encounters be considered "First Contact." After all, there's no title called "Star Trek: First Contact (But Not Really)".

But yeah, Q is a member of his race, and from that encounter, the Federation found a new race with which they have had some sort of exchange ("They" being the TNG/DS9/VOY crews for the Federation, and Q for the Continuum). If we're comparing Farpoint to the Vulcans at First Contact, the Vulcans went out of their way to be known and didn't try to hide anything -- they exchanged information with humans. Same with Q and Picard --Q went out of his way to test Picard, and informed the Federation that the Continuum was examining humanity's evolution (which the Q had been doing silently without humanity's knowledge or comprehension up until then - and informing one group about the intentions of your own group mean you are acting on their behalf -- a representative). That sharing of information need not be cooperative or consensual (war, for example, or those tests), but both sides are aware of each other and their official designation.

Keep in mind too the episode First Contact. Picard offered first contact for Malcorian society, but their Chancellor respectfully declined. The Chancellor and those involved are now aware of the Federation, but they felt their own people wouldn't be ready, so they withheld information from them. Due to the Prime Directive, Picard agreed to the Chancellor's request, but this highlights, again, that information about both sides needs to be shared in some way to necessitate first contact. To the Malcorian history books, they haven't had it yet. In that way, Picard and the Federation would be like the 21st-century Vulcans or pre-Farpoint Q, studying in secret and the Federation's presence kept a secret from the Malcorians. Since one side wasn't fully aware of the other side, there was no first contact -- something that Picard and the Chancellor agreed to and outright stated by the two representatives in the episode itself. On the same level, the Ferengi met with the military at Area 51, but since that was kept hush-hush, that wasn't counted as First Contact. Same with the Borg in Enterprise. As far as Federation historical records go, Picard made those First Contacts, not a human general in 1947 nor Lily or Archer.
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Last edited by Cyke101; December 27 2013 at 11:19 PM.
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Old December 27 2013, 11:52 PM   #35
JarodRussell
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

The idea that warp drive determines when a species is "ready" to be made contact with is pretty funny. It's an invention that tells NOTHING about the state of a society.
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Old December 28 2013, 12:30 AM   #36
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The idea that warp drive determines when a species is "ready" to be made contact with is pretty funny. It's an invention that tells NOTHING about the state of a society.
I'm sure the Mirror Universe Vulcans had the exact same thought when Cochrane shot those visitors.
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Old December 28 2013, 03:04 AM   #37
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Re: Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

garak1 wrote: View Post
Kozinski wasn't with Starfleet. Though I'd imagine that the Traveler likely did interact with Starfleet officers prior to coming aboard the Enterprise due to being Kozinski's assistant.
As I recall, the Traveller was travelling incognito with Kozinski. I think they knew what he was capable of, but not who he was.

It was only during the warp experiments that his true identiy was disclosed to Picard. As such, I believe that Picard should be credited with the true 'First Contact' between the Federation and the Traveller species.
What we know of the Traveler from the show is that he's from Tau Alpha C, which was a world known to Commander Riker by the time the Traveler had beamed aboard. We don't know if Starfleet made contact with the people of that world, but they seemed okay with appointing him Kozinski's assistant and he apparently had a security clearance high enough to work with the engines of the Federation flagship. One can reasonably assume that Starfleet had already spoken with at least one member of that species, namely the Traveler.

Whether there was an official first contact is not known, but it's a reasonable assumption that Starfleet already made contact with Tau Alpha C. There's nothing to suggest that the Traveler is a separate species from everyone else residing in that system, but rather a member of that species who has learned to transcend space and time just as Wesley, a human from Earth, was able to.
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