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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "The Time Of The Doctor"
Geronimo! 64 30.48%
Fish Fingers and Custard 84 40.00%
Average 36 17.14%
Not Good 21 10.00%
Beans are evil. Bad bad beans! | 5 2.38%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

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Old December 26 2013, 09:47 PM   #196
RoJoHen
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

What a confusing episode.

In Moffat's defense, however, I find most of his confusing episodes become a lot better after I watch them a second or third time. I hated "The Wedding of River Song" the first time I saw it because I was left with feelings of "What the hell did I just watch?" After re-watching it and picking up on things, I have come to enjoy it quite a bit.

I hope that this episode is much the same. There was just so much stuff being packed into this episode that it was incredibly hard to follow.


The one thing that I couldn't figure out, that really kind of ruined this episode for me...is why did the Doctor stay in that town at all? If the whole point was to prevent him from speaking his name, why wouldn't he just leave?
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Old December 26 2013, 09:54 PM   #197
Malformed
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I loved it, I unabashedly loved it! and I'll tell you why, but first:

Bona Fides: I've been watching Doctor Who since the 80's, the Baker, then Davison years, had a friend's mom knit a scarf (to pattern!) etc.. et.al. ad nauseum... been at this awhile.

It was great! Was it rushed? Could more time have been used? Of course!

But it was still great, and here's the thing the folks drinking the Hatorade seem to have missed, in Moffat's hands, Doctor Who is a fable.

As such, it can do things that it couldn't do under RTD, Hinchcliffe, JNT, etc... for those of you who like fables, great! For those of you who prefer your Doctor more SF or action adventurey, well then not so much.

I thought it was fantastic, and we'll see how it holds up to a second viewing.

Last edited by Malformed; December 26 2013 at 09:55 PM. Reason: improper formatting
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Old December 26 2013, 10:06 PM   #198
RoJoHen
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Malformed wrote: View Post

As such, it can do things that it couldn't do under RTD, Hinchcliffe, JNT, etc... for those of you who like fables, great! For those of you who prefer your Doctor more SF or action adventurey, well then not so much.
The fact that Moffat's Who has been more of a fairy tale is actually something that has appealed to me greatly. I loved the entirety of Moffat and Smith's era.

This episode, however...

I need to watch it again. It's not that I don't like it. I honestly can't figure out if I like it or not. It was so rushed that my brain couldn't process everything that was going on.
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Old December 26 2013, 10:59 PM   #199
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but perhaps the reason Clara didn't kill the silent on sight is she hadn't seen the message if the silence ordering humans to kill them on sight. After however likely the possibility remains is that Clara had never seen the Moon Landing clip.
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Old December 26 2013, 11:09 PM   #200
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I was disappointed. Especially as a follow up to Day of The Doctor.

1. the Doctor was a passive character in this. YES, he was defending the town for however many hundred's of years, but, he sorta gave up coming up with a permanent solution. That's the Doctor to me: he solves problems. He'll spend a 1000 years but keep trying to find a solution. He did in Day of the Doctor. But, here. This story had him resigned to his fate. But...

2. He KNOWS that it's not his fate. At the end of the Day of the Doctor he met a future incarnation... so he KNOWS it's not the end of his story... so his behavior doesn't make sense. MAYBE he doesn't remember the events of The Day of the Doctor, like the others, but that's not the indication I got.

3. So, he didn't die on Trenzalore. Ok. So, does The Name of the Doctor NOT happen? Then Clara wouldn't be impossible. I get it, time can be rewritten, but, then, that throws out the whole fixed point stuff... I just want a little consistency in the rules that Moffat has created for himself.

4. A passive Doctor is saved somehow by the Time Lords... so they can send a new thing of regenerations but, not like, THEMSELVES? A Tardis? One of them? It's just bad hand waving.

5. The story just wasn't particularly dramatic. Stuff happened... but... it felt more like a prose story... we're experiencing the stuff happening, but it's not about Will he succeed? How will he succeed? It's just watching the Doctor mope. Meh.

6. Wrapping up story lines by a wave of exposition. By now, I didn't really care who blew up the Tardis, but, how Moffat revealed it, it seems like he didn't care either. It was a line and the revelation had like zero impact on the story, on the Doctor. In other words, the reveal just didn't matter. it was a plot hole needing to be filled... and it was filled like a pot hole in the street, just shoveled.

7. I do think the performances were excellent though. And the effects, etc. The production of the meh script was well done.

Pretty disappointing to me.
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Old December 26 2013, 11:18 PM   #201
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

And what exactly was the purpose of them being naked in the beginning? Holographic clothes? Why?

I assumed at the very end of the episode, after the regeneration explosion, that we were seeing Peter Capaldi's Doctor walking around in a holographic Matt Smith suit. I figured he had already changed faces and was just "wearing" Matt Smith as a way to say goodbye to Clara and because he wasn't quite ready to move on yet.

I think that would have made much more sense. Otherwise why bother introducing the hologram element at all?
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Old December 26 2013, 11:24 PM   #202
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

^ There you go, creating more controversy

They finally explain the crack and the exploding TARDIS and you wanna stir up more questions.

In all seriousness, I agree with those that think it was a rushed episode. I feel like it could have done with another half hour.

Otherwise, a great episode. I'm looking forward to watching it a few more times.
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Old December 26 2013, 11:25 PM   #203
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Although for some reason they brought back those pointless "spider Daleks" from Day of the Doctor. What is the purpose for these things anyway?
I stumbled across a "behind the scenes" short about the opticals arranged for "Day of the Doctor" which gave some insight. As fast as they flashed across the screen it was impossible to tell (unless one "freeze framed" the shot at just the right moment), but those weren't "individual" Daleks, "spider" or otherwise. They were, in fact, massively gunned "hover-bouts" upon which three Daleks rode. We are to assume the weapons mounted upon this "platform" possess far more firepower than any single Dalek, possibly three or more (otherwise it's diminishing returns).

The featurette revealed sequences of the "platform" slowly rotating to show off the details, lapsing from wire-frame, to "clay" shading" then fully textured and illuminated. Given a Dalek stands a little over 5 feet, the entire platform appears to stand over 20 feet tall.

Ah, I just found the clip again. The discussion about the flying platform starts at the 4 and a half minute mark.

http://www.milk-vfx.com/projects/the-day-of-the-doctor/

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old December 26 2013, 11:36 PM   #204
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Mage wrote: View Post
As for Tasha Lem.... New character and all, but are there really no female characters from ALL those years of Doctor Who that could have served a similair purpose?
The character bugged me. Supposed to be a major character from the Doctor's past, yet this is the first time we've met her? Jeepers, fine time to introduce her.

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Old December 26 2013, 11:37 PM   #205
OdoWanKenobi
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Maybe this has been mentioned before, but if Smith's Doctor had no more regenerations left, then how did he use the regenerative energy to heal River's wrist in The Angels Take Manhattan?
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Old December 26 2013, 11:40 PM   #206
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
And what exactly was the purpose of them being naked in the beginning? Holographic clothes? Why?
The Church of the Papal Mainframe requires those on board to be naked (though, apparently, holographs are okay). The Doctor says this to Clara shortly before they enter the ship.


I assumed at the very end of the episode, after the regeneration explosion, that we were seeing Peter Capaldi's Doctor walking around in a holographic Matt Smith suit. I figured he had already changed faces and was just "wearing" Matt Smith as a way to say goodbye to Clara and because he wasn't quite ready to move on yet.
I do believe that later on in the episode, they comment on wearing actual clothing again.

Besides, I don't think we are seeing holographic clothing on the Tardis floor when Clara enters, after Eleven defeats the Daleks. There are clothes strewn about. I got the impression the Doctor ditched them in favor of a fresh set, in order to properly say goodbye to Clara.

ETA: I think I should post after OdoWanKenobi more often. It looks like Hal is ready to take on Parallax Sinestro.
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Old December 26 2013, 11:40 PM   #207
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Vyse wrote: View Post
Jon1701 wrote: View Post
Messy. And Confusing.


I know we get a Christmas Special but do we have to get smashed over the head every year with Snow and Christmas trees and shit. We get it. Its Christmas! They sure do ladle this stuff on. "Its Christmas...It Christmas...DID WE MENTION ITS CHRISTMAS????"
I do agree strongly with this. Especially since I'm Jewish. I'm no Scrooge, there is nothing wrong with clebrating the festive holiday, but I got very annoyed with "The Doctor, The Widow, and the Wardrobe", that episode had the attitude that every living being in the entire universe is Christian, and celebrates Christmas.
There is nothing Christian about the Christmas celebrated in the Doctor Who episodes, from what I can remember.

In fact doesn't the Doctor have have an opening Monologue in one where he says how it is a general Winter Festival about family and friendship and getting through the winter an' that?

Lived in the UK all my life.. very few religious people.. even fewer incredibly religious people.. Everyone celebrates Christmas..

I think the poster above was complaining about the constant Greetings Card portrayal of Christmas in all the episodes. Am I right?
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Old December 26 2013, 11:44 PM   #208
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Mitty wrote: View Post
I've watched it 2.5 times now (Watched it once, then the last half again, then the whole thing again). It gets better with repeated viewings. Once you understand how this regeneration worked, it makes much more sense.

I think the spookiest thing of all, is when Matt says "He's coming", and Clara says "Who?" and he says "The Doctor".

I'm scared.
No, I understood it just fine the first time around. I just didn't like the plot points via exposition (telling not showing), the magical ending, the weird pacing, the major characters out of no where, major plot threads wrapped up in a rushed line, etc.

The structure really just did not work. The premise was interesting and nice, but the execution was sorely lacking.

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Old December 26 2013, 11:47 PM   #209
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Redfern wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Although for some reason they brought back those pointless "spider Daleks" from Day of the Doctor. What is the purpose for these things anyway?
I stumbled across a "behind the scenes" short about the opticals arranged for "Day of the Doctor" which gave some insight. As fast as they flashed across the screen it was impossible to tell (unless one "freeze framed" the shot at just the right moment), but those weren't "individual" Daleks, "spider" or otherwise. They were, in fact, massively gunned "hover-bouts" upon which three Daleks rode. We are to assume the weapons mounted upon this "platform" possess far more firepower than any single Dalek, possibly three or more (otherwise it's diminishing returns).

The featurette revealed sequences of the "platform" slowly rotating to show off the details, lapsing from wire-frame, to "clay" shading" then fully textured and illuminated. Given a Dalek stands a little over 5 feet, the entire platform appears to stand over 20 feet tall.

Ah, I just found the clip again. The discussion about the flying platform starts at the 4 and a half minute mark.

http://www.milk-vfx.com/projects/the-day-of-the-doctor/

Sincerely,

Bill
Daleks: No such thing as over gunned. Cool concept though. Though now I have a mental image of a Dalek going "Wheeee!" as they zip around.

Still, would have liked it to have just been one big ass Dalek. Spider/tank Dalek, for when special-weapons Dalek is just to subtle.
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Old December 26 2013, 11:48 PM   #210
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Re: The Time Of The Doctor (Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

The people living on Trenzalore were established to be a human colony. It would only make sense, then, that they would celebrate Christmas. This was the case with "A Christmas Carol," as well.
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