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Old December 22 2013, 08:24 PM   #31
Reverend
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
Gojira wrote: View Post
One of the aspects of the original was Taylor (and the audience) not knowing he was really back home on Earth. Since they can't repeat that part of the story it does give them creative room to do something new.
Why can't they repeat it?

I mean, obviously none of us can know exactly what happens in Dawn, but I'm just guessing that there'll still be room for a full-out nuclear conflict (which is what happened in the original).

And even if it's not nuclear: There will be *some* kind of final conflict, we know that much. That's the whole point of all Apes films: to establish a world where apes rule and humans are slaves. We don't know how Dawn will get there, but it's pretty safe to assume it will. It'll do something to humans to make them unable to speak and act like anything other than animals. (I mean, come on, why else use the phrase "Planet of the APES"? ) And thus lead to a reboot of POTA.
Judging by the trailer, the catastrophe has already occurred in the form of the viral pandemic that began in 'Rise'. Presumably a massive chunk of humanity is dead with only a handful of survivors who are presumably immune.

The only missing step between this and something akin to the state of affairs we saw in the original is humans devolving in intellect and loosing the power of speech.

For my money, a virus specifically designed to affect the human brain is a much more credible explanation than "they blew it all up." A Nuclear War as the cause was just a reflections of the fears of the time it was made, just as a global pandemic is for today. The difference is a pandemic makes more sense in context.

Has anyone actually read the original book? I haven't but from what I gather it's not Earth at all but one of those parallel Earth's 60's sci-fi authors were so fond of and the cause was just that the old human civilization had become so stagnant and decadent that their "ape slaves" revolted and exiled them into the wilderness. IIRC the twist is that by the time they get home, thanks to time dilation in the intervening centuries the same thing has happened here.

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Old December 22 2013, 09:16 PM   #32
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Gojira wrote: View Post
Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
Although, it's interesting in that the original war between apes and humans - which led to the original film as we saw it - apparently did not happen until the 25th or 26th centuries. So perhaps things could go differently this time around.
In many ways it would have to be different. One of the aspects of the original was Taylor (and the audience) not knowing he was really back home on Earth. Since they can't repeat that part of the story it does give them creative room to do something new.
Good point. There's no point in remaking POTA since the twist ending has been common knowledge for over forty years now. And the new movies are already forging their own continuity--unless I missed the part where a spaceborne virus wiped out all the dogs and cats--and apes became a slave race in the 1990s!
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Old December 22 2013, 09:18 PM   #33
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Reverend wrote: View Post
The only missing step between this and something akin to the state of affairs we saw in the original is humans devolving in intellect and loosing the power of speech.
Maybe that side effect will only kick in with the final scene?
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Old December 23 2013, 03:53 AM   #34
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
The only missing step between this and something akin to the state of affairs we saw in the original is humans devolving in intellect and loosing the power of speech.
Maybe that side effect will only kick in with the final scene?
Actually I'd be willing to bet it's going to be part of the main plot. Humans getting decreasingly intelligent and more volatile would be a good enough reason why the apes would need to assert dominance. I mean with a drastically depopulated planet it's not as if they have to co-exist with all the extra space and the apes aren't nearly as technologically dependent as the human survivors, so shouldn't have trouble surviving in the wilderness.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Gojira wrote: View Post
Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
Although, it's interesting in that the original war between apes and humans - which led to the original film as we saw it - apparently did not happen until the 25th or 26th centuries. So perhaps things could go differently this time around.
In many ways it would have to be different. One of the aspects of the original was Taylor (and the audience) not knowing he was really back home on Earth. Since they can't repeat that part of the story it does give them creative room to do something new.
Good point. There's no point in remaking POTA since the twist ending has been common knowledge for over forty years now. And the new movies are already forging their own continuity--unless I missed the part where a spaceborne virus wiped out all the dogs and cats--and apes became a slave race in the 1990s!
I think it's a safe bet that if this movie is successful, the studio will keep it going. Since 'Rise' and 'Dawn' seem to cover the same basic ground as 'Conquest' and 'Battle' respectively, the next logical step would be a POTA remake. The trick is doing it in a new and interesting way.

I suppose they could skip right past it and redo 'Escape' instead ('Beneath' hardly seems worth the bother) with future apes time travelling either back to before Caesar, or to a point after 'Dawn'...but that wouldn't be my first choice.
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Old December 23 2013, 05:26 AM   #35
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Reverend wrote: View Post
Rķu rķu, chķu wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
The only missing step between this and something akin to the state of affairs we saw in the original is humans devolving in intellect and loosing the power of speech.
Maybe that side effect will only kick in with the final scene?
Actually I'd be willing to bet it's going to be part of the main plot. Humans getting decreasingly intelligent and more volatile would be a good enough reason why the apes would need to assert dominance. I mean with a drastically depopulated planet it's not as if they have to co-exist with all the extra space and the apes aren't nearly as technologically dependent as the human survivors, so shouldn't have trouble surviving in the wilderness.

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Gojira wrote: View Post

In many ways it would have to be different. One of the aspects of the original was Taylor (and the audience) not knowing he was really back home on Earth. Since they can't repeat that part of the story it does give them creative room to do something new.
Good point. There's no point in remaking POTA since the twist ending has been common knowledge for over forty years now. And the new movies are already forging their own continuity--unless I missed the part where a spaceborne virus wiped out all the dogs and cats--and apes became a slave race in the 1990s!
I think it's a safe bet that if this movie is successful, the studio will keep it going. Since 'Rise' and 'Dawn' seem to cover the same basic ground as 'Conquest' and 'Battle' respectively, the next logical step would be a POTA remake. The trick is doing it in a new and interesting way.

I suppose they could skip right past it and redo 'Escape' instead ('Beneath' hardly seems worth the bother) with future apes time travelling either back to before Caesar, or to a point after 'Dawn'...but that wouldn't be my first choice.
Or they can simply make up a new story following the events of Dawn. There's no rule that says they have to remake all of the earlier movies . . ..
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Old December 23 2013, 05:45 AM   #36
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

At this point the two series are different enough I'd rather see them take things in a completely new direction.
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Old December 23 2013, 05:56 AM   #37
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

JD wrote: View Post
At this point the two series are different enough I'd rather see them take things in a completely new direction.
And, really, Rise was only a "remake" of Conquest in the loosest sense. They're both about an ape uprising led by a super-evolved ape named Caesar, but that's about it. Rise had no time-travel angle, no enslaved ape servants, was set in the present instead of some fascist future dystopia, had completely different human characters, and, of course, the whole genetic-engineering business which was nowhere in Conquest.

And, most importantly, no Ricardo Montalban!
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Old December 23 2013, 06:13 AM   #38
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Or they can simply make up a new story following the events of Dawn. There's no rule that says they have to remake all of the earlier movies . . ..
Oh sure they could do something totally original...but does that sound like something Hollywood is liable to do these days?

Seriously though, I'm not sure what else they could do after this before they start repeating themselves, which was also a problem with the original films. 'Rise' had the novelty of being set in modern day/near future with realistically portrayed apes. 'Dawn' seems--and I stress seems since we can only presume at this point--to be very much in the post-apocalyptic genre, with the last human remnants refusing to go down without a fight...where do they go from there without just making it a rehash of 'Dawn'?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
At this point the two series are different enough I'd rather see them take things in a completely new direction.
And, really, Rise was only a "remake" of Conquest in the loosest sense. They're both about an ape uprising led by a super-evolved ape named Caesar, but that's about it. Rise had no time-travel angle, no enslaved ape servants, was set in the present instead of some fascist future dystopia, completely different human characters, and, of course, the whole genetic-engineering business which was nowhere in Conquest.
Oh I totally agree. I was only talking in generalities as to which stories they may or may not choose to adapt. Indeed from the looks of it 'Dawn' is similarly only connected with 'Battle' in a very general way.

Likewise I'd expect any adaption of the original, or 'Escape' (assuming they even go that route) to be just as loosely based.

I'd actually like to see them do something a little closer to the original book with a more technologically advanced ape civilization, rather than what we got in the original and the Burton remake which felt less like a civilization and more like a single settlement of mutants squatting in the shadow of their creator's ruins.

And, most importantly, no Ricardo Montalban!
And it was all the poorer for it I say!
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Old January 8 2014, 05:29 AM   #39
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

looks like a third film has been announced.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/01/plan...eves-director/
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Old January 8 2014, 06:01 AM   #40
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Praetor_Shinzon wrote: View Post
looks like a third film has been announced.
Sounds like Fox is very confident about the second film.
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Old January 8 2014, 05:27 PM   #41
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Reverend wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Or they can simply make up a new story following the events of Dawn. There's no rule that says they have to remake all of the earlier movies . . ..
Oh sure they could do something totally original...but does that sound like something Hollywood is liable to do these days?
Well, Dr. Watson is now an Asian-American woman, and Frankenstein is a hunky, demon-fighting warrior, and Dracula is a steampunk inventor fighting an evil oil cartel, so I wouldn't say modern Hollywood is exactly adverse to making radical changes to old stories . . .
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Old January 8 2014, 05:46 PM   #42
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Or they can simply make up a new story following the events of Dawn. There's no rule that says they have to remake all of the earlier movies . . ..
Oh sure they could do something totally original...but does that sound like something Hollywood is liable to do these days?
Well, Dr. Watson is now an Asian-American woman, and Frankenstein is a hunky, demon-fighting warrior, and Dracula is a steampunk inventor fighting an evil oil cartel, so I wouldn't say modern Hollywood is exactly adverse to making radical changes to old stories . . .
Aren't they all TV shows though, rather than big budget Hollywood movies?
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Old January 8 2014, 05:53 PM   #43
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Servo wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Reverend wrote: View Post

Oh sure they could do something totally original...but does that sound like something Hollywood is liable to do these days?
Well, Dr. Watson is now an Asian-American woman, and Frankenstein is a hunky, demon-fighting warrior, and Dracula is a steampunk inventor fighting an evil oil cartel, so I wouldn't say modern Hollywood is exactly adverse to making radical changes to old stories . . .
Aren't they all TV shows though, rather than big budget Hollywood movies?
I, Frankenstein is an upcoming movie, and lord knows the Tim Burton versions of Sleepy Hollow and Alice in Wonderland played fast and loose with the original stories.

And, heck, Rise was a pretty radical reinvention of the old Apes movies.
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Old January 8 2014, 06:03 PM   #44
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Servo wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

Well, Dr. Watson is now an Asian-American woman, and Frankenstein is a hunky, demon-fighting warrior, and Dracula is a steampunk inventor fighting an evil oil cartel, so I wouldn't say modern Hollywood is exactly adverse to making radical changes to old stories . . .
Aren't they all TV shows though, rather than big budget Hollywood movies?
I, Frankenstein is an upcoming movie, and lord knows the Tim Burton versions of Sleepy Hollow and Alice in Wonderland played fast and loose with the original stories.

And, heck, Rise was a pretty radical reinvention of the old Apes movies.
I'm just glad they didn't bother following up on that god awful Tim Burton remake.
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Old March 19 2014, 06:39 AM   #45
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Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes - Trailers, Discussion, Pics

Dawn of the Planet of the Apes: Firestorm by Greg Keyes.
I haven't read of his Star Wars or Elder Scrolls stuff, so I can't judge if it will be any good, but it is still interesting.
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