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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 20 2013, 08:39 PM   #1096
Nerys Myk
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Music covers do not steal, cheat, or swindle; they do no exploit; and they are not inferior copies or imitations.

They are not rip-offs.
Except when Pat Boone covers Little Richard.
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Old December 21 2013, 12:41 AM   #1097
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Again, Khan is a character, not a story. Him being brought back is no different to Moriarty in various Sherlock Holmes adaptations. Joaquin Phoenix may be Lex Luthor in the Man of Steel sequel - is that due to a lack of ideas or simply them using the Superman mythology?
I don't think Khan is comparable to these recurring villains. He was a one-off who just happened to get a movie. He's not the Joker.
That's only because Trek hasn't been rebooted before. Khan, as villain of Trek's most popular (and, arguably, most important) movie, is an obvious choice to resurrect.

Khan got a three-episode tribute in Enterprise (where they even replicated Khan's death by having an injured Malik crawl across the bridge to the self-destruct controls) and at least 3 novels detailing his backstory.
Now if it were Mudd, then that would be different because he was that type of villain. A movie with Mudd would be boring though, and using him as a character isn't the same as using Khan.
He got a mention at least. And a cool little ship.
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Old December 21 2013, 01:00 AM   #1098
BigJake
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Coach Comet wrote: View Post
What makes what you're saying all the more preposterous is that you are attempting to tell me how semantics work, while at the same time insisting that "there is no law or science to this". That's really something that you can't have both ways.
Really? You actually believe semantics is a question of law or science? What are you basing that on? Because I don't think language works like either of those things, at least not in terms of everyday usage as it relates to meaning.

No answer to the question I asked of you?
Oh, sorry:

By the way, I'm curious regarding what my level of horror about the use of the term rip-off has to do with how the term could technically be applied?
Nothing directly, except insofar as your "level of horror" appears to be driving you into an absurd and Quixotic series of statements about how the term can technically be applied.

Corporal Clegg wrote:
Music covers do not steal, cheat, or swindle; they do no exploit; and they are not inferior copies or imitations.
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief," to quote the immortal bard of civilization*. Borrowing -- "stealing," metaphorically speaking -- from other artists is a basic part of artistic endeavour and is necessarily an aspect of doing covers. Sometimes this "theft" is benign, sometimes not.

Going beyond that would depend on the cover and one's opinion of it. I can think of plenty of covers that are exploitative, cheap and inferior to the original. (I see Nerys Myk beat me to the punch with Pat Boone and Little Richard... )

[* Yes, that would be Bono.]
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Last edited by BigJake; December 21 2013 at 02:44 AM. Reason: "the immortal bard of our civilization" corrected to "of civilization" to improve accuracy of Bono remark
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Old December 21 2013, 01:10 AM   #1099
M'Sharak
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Warning for Bono; comments to PM.
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Old December 21 2013, 05:05 AM   #1100
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Now if it were Mudd, then that would be different because he was that type of villain. A movie with Mudd would be boring though, and using him as a character isn't the same as using Khan.
He got a mention at least. And a cool little ship.
Didn't someone point out that said cool little ship actually matches the profile of the one he had in his first TOS appearance?
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Old December 21 2013, 05:16 AM   #1101
M'Sharak
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Now if it were Mudd, then that would be different because he was that type of villain. A movie with Mudd would be boring though, and using him as a character isn't the same as using Khan.
He got a mention at least. And a cool little ship.
Didn't someone point out that said cool little ship actually matches the profile of the one he had in his first TOS appearance?
I believe so.
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Old December 21 2013, 07:37 AM   #1102
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
A movie with Mudd would be boring though
Huh? A guest character you find "boring" makes a whole movie that hasn't even been written "boring"?
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Old December 21 2013, 10:45 AM   #1103
Belz...
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
They say in the commentary that were thinking of ending the '09 movie on a shot of the Botany Bay floating in space. That says to me that it wasn't a lack of ideas that led to Khan, but a plan all along to use TOS' most famous villain in the second movie.
Sure, but as Set said, it gives that impression.
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Old December 22 2013, 01:23 AM   #1104
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Adam Savage interviews Lindelof

Nothing earth shattering, just him talking about the process and his experiences in the industry.
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Old December 23 2013, 10:36 AM   #1105
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Again, Khan is a character, not a story. Him being brought back is no different to Moriarty in various Sherlock Holmes adaptations. Joaquin Phoenix may be Lex Luthor in the Man of Steel sequel - is that due to a lack of ideas or simply them using the Superman mythology?
I don't think Khan is comparable to these recurring villains. He was a one-off who just happened to get a movie. He's not the Joker.
That's only because Trek hasn't been rebooted before. Khan, as villain of Trek's most popular (and, arguably, most important) movie, is an obvious choice to resurrect.

Khan got a three-episode tribute in Enterprise (where they even replicated Khan's death by having an injured Malik crawl across the bridge to the self-destruct controls) and at least 3 novels detailing his backstory.
Now if it were Mudd, then that would be different because he was that type of villain. A movie with Mudd would be boring though, and using him as a character isn't the same as using Khan.
He got a mention at least. And a cool little ship.
There's a chance that the 'Mudd' mentioned isn't a he, but a she..
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Old December 23 2013, 11:14 AM   #1106
Belz...
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Yeah, and that makes no sense whatsoever. :P
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Old December 23 2013, 07:25 PM   #1107
JWPlatt
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Warning for Bono; comments to PM.
What the...?

Is that name taboo here?
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Old December 23 2013, 07:31 PM   #1108
Set Harth
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Belz... wrote: View Post
Yeah, and that makes no sense whatsoever. :P
Harry Mudd impregnating a Bajoran?
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Old December 23 2013, 07:50 PM   #1109
M'Sharak
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

JWPlatt wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Warning for Bono; comments to PM.
What the...?

Is that name taboo here?
Not only are you two days late, you're not commenting to PM.

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Old December 23 2013, 07:54 PM   #1110
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Yeah, and that makes no sense whatsoever. :P
Harry Mudd impregnating a Bajoran?
He means Mudd being a woman this time around (in the comic books.)
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