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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old September 19 2013, 10:59 PM   #76
Sindatur
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Opus wrote: View Post
I find it interesting that they seriously wanted to petition Paramount to have fans involved with script approval.

Yikes! That's getting hardcore.
What...What would be wrong with th...

<Sorry, just couldn't keep a straight face for the whole sentence, I almost made it, though>
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Old September 19 2013, 11:16 PM   #77
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Opus wrote: View Post
I find it interesting that they seriously wanted to petition Paramount to have fans involved with script approval.

Yikes! That's getting hardcore.
Not that Paramount would ever accede to such a thing, but at least it's not as batshit crazy as the notion that We the Trekkies could fund a full, 22-episode fifth season of Enterprise out-of-pocket.
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Old September 20 2013, 12:19 AM   #78
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

cardinal biggles wrote: View Post
... but at least it's not as batshit crazy as the notion that We the Trekkies could fund a full, 22-episode fifth season of Enterprise out-of-pocket.
I call Bullshit, you just need to cut back on the effects a bit

Say, for example, using stick figure storyboards and Flash animation
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Old September 20 2013, 12:49 AM   #79
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Return of the styrofoam rocks!
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Old September 20 2013, 01:09 AM   #80
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

INTERSTAT, March 1983 wrote:
One humorous note...if we presuppose that residual effects of Genesis will re generate Spock's body, what will then happen to him? He will find himself inside a casket which must be well-sealed (or it would not have made it to the surface), push on the cover, be unable to open it, suffocate, and die—only to be re-regenerated, push on the lid, suffocate, die—be re-re-regenerated, suffocate ad infinitum. What a sad fate, indeed!
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Old September 20 2013, 02:19 PM   #81
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

22 episodes? That's got to be over $50 million dollars!
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Old September 22 2013, 09:01 PM   #82
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

The comparison does not follow. Star Trek II and Star Trek Into Darkness are two completely different movies. It is true that both were popular for their day and that both have critics. But that is where your hasty generalization should stop.

Debate on the merit of the issue before us instead of trying to shut down all debate by saying "see how stupid you guys look?" And anyone who has the gumption to stand up and say this does not compare, apparently will be ridiculed?

If every movie has critics, why would you try and shut down the debate? Kirk did change from the series to the movies. His promotion changed who he was. I happen to think that it's an evolution towards a more arrogant Kirk, but the arrogance is justified--he's saved earth and the Federation too much.

What bothers me about these movies is that the arrogance is there before he ever does anything, the training is not, and all he can do is save the world. He doesn't have the training necessary to be Captain. He doesn't know, because he doesn't care, what the rules of engagement are between himself and a new life form. He doesn't have the judgment to know when to follow the rules and when not to. He gets busted down to the Academy, and he should've stayed there.

This is not just a different Kirk, this is one that tells us Starfleet needs nothing but fly-by-your-pants Captains. The more successful he is, the worse this will get as far as arrogance, and, in the real world, he will get people killed.

It's like going 150 miles an hour in a car. You get to your destination faster. If you stay alive, you are a damn good driver, if there's a person with a gunshot wound in the back, you may save their life. But you run just as much risk that you'll crash into the median and kill you both. Kirk is the guy driving the car. He has one speed and no nuance now. He doesn't know the rules of the road. And this is not at all an interesting character to this fan.
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Old September 22 2013, 09:35 PM   #83
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
The comparison does not follow. Star Trek II and Star Trek Into Darkness are two completely different movies. It is true that both were popular for their day and that both have critics. But that is where your hasty generalization should stop.
Not sure at whom this is directed (and I don't suppose it really matters that much) but wasn't the point of the exercise to show that the types of criticism leveled—both then and now—were in many ways quite similar?

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
Debate on the merit of the issue before us instead of trying to shut down all debate by saying "see how stupid you guys look?" And anyone who has the gumption to stand up and say this does not compare, apparently will be ridiculed?

If every movie has critics, why would you try and shut down the debate?
But no one is proposing any of that.

Debate has not been shut down, nor do I see that happening any time soon. Anyone wishing to draw or dismiss comparisons is welcome to stand up and do so, with gumption or without (but be civil about it - calling other fans or groups of fans stupid will not be tolerated, and may be actionable.)
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Old September 22 2013, 10:21 PM   #84
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
The comparison does not follow. Star Trek II and Star Trek Into Darkness are two completely different movies. It is true that both were popular for their day and that both have critics. But that is where your hasty generalization should stop.
I disagree. Fans in both times, about both movies, complaining about how the new regime in charge has changed what Roddenberry created to make a money-making blockbuster with no message. Both questioning if it should be considered "real" Star Trek. Both having disparaging comments about the writers and directors. Both thinking the films hold style over substance. Both complaining how they changed Khan into a one dimensional mustache-twirling villian. I'd say there is plenty to discuss about this interesting phenomenon. And with TWOK being held up (now) by fans as Trek's standard-bearer, I'd say the need FOR debate is necesssary.

This is not just a different Kirk, this is one that tells us Starfleet needs nothing but fly-by-your-pants Captains. The more successful he is, the worse this will get as far as arrogance, and, in the real world, he will get people killed.
This,what you just said - It's the whole point of Kirk's journey in the movie. He thinks he can do no wrong. He thinks his breaking of the rules is justified because no one under his command has died. Pike recognizes it. That's why he took his command away from Kirk. yes, Kirk is arrogant.

Kirk chasing down Khan, losing members of his crew, and ultimately facing down the barrel of Marcus' gun, he's forced to realize he's not perfect. He turns to his crew and apologizes. He gives command to Spock because Kirk now knows he's been wrong. He goes over to Vengeance with Khan to save his crew. And Kirk makes the ultimate sacrifice by saving his crew and ship. Kirk's soul-searching brings him face to face with that arrogance, and he beat it. Now, on to the five-year mission...


And this is not at all an interesting character to this fan.
I hope someday in the future there will be a Trek you enjoy again, because the other point of posting the Interstat quotes was to show that Trek has continued despite fan outrage. Abrams Trek will not last, just as Roddenberry, Bennett and Berman Trek did not last. Someone else will take up the Trek mantle again. Be patient.

Cheers!
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Old December 18 2013, 09:15 AM   #85
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Khan444 wrote: View Post
Gene Rodenberry was a visionary,
MLK was a visionary. Roddenberry used an easily palatable tag-line to help peddle his wares and started to believe his own rhetoric late in his life.
A Jewel Christmas wrote: View Post
I'm thankful that the other fandoms I'm in don't have ideologies, I wish Trek would drop it as well. Trek is a franchise with some good stories, that's about it. It isn't a guide map to our future or even realistic on any level.
Like I said before, some fans think it's a religion, with a founding moment that can't be violated, ever. And we've seen that with reactions to the new movies and TWOK.

Opus wrote: View Post
I think, after the prequel debacle and with Disney's oversight, there is a better than good chance the SW movies are going to be out of this world.
What 'prequel debacle'? The movies were one of the most successful trilogies in recent history, breaking (surpassing) the box office records of the previous trilogy, and creating a whole new generation of fans, not to mention injecting the franchise with new energy by going back to the past and giving us new concepts like Clone Troopers, Padwans, and the best female Star Wars characters since Leia herself, Ahsoka Tano and Leia's mom Padme! Who are these fans that think that the Prequel Trilogy was/is a failure, and why should I care what they have to say?

Also, if the movies are so bad then why is Disney making more? (I know that the prequel trilogy counts as a popular failure to most, but it doesn't to me.) It seems that the Star Wars franchise has the same kind of fans that we hate in the Star Trek trilogy that hate the new movies.
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Old December 18 2013, 05:19 PM   #86
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

I'm a little surprised to see this thread being resurrected after so long, and I guess we'll have to disagree on the idea of Padme being one of the best characters ever (off the top of my head she falls in love with a guy who kills women and children in a petty act of revenge, and loses the will to live right after having twin babies), but oh well...
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Old December 18 2013, 09:36 PM   #87
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

She is played by Natalie Portman, though. She's got that going for her.
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Old December 18 2013, 10:59 PM   #88
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

DonIago wrote: View Post
I'm a little surprised to see this thread being resurrected after so long, and I guess we'll have to disagree on the idea of Padme being one of the best characters ever (off the top of my head she falls in love with a guy who kills women and children in a petty act of revenge, and loses the will to live right after having twin babies), but oh well...
Yeah, a strong female character she isn't.

But she is nothing like sand, so she's got that going for her.
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Old December 18 2013, 11:42 PM   #89
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

That must be the first argument I've ever heard in favor of sand.
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Old December 19 2013, 12:58 AM   #90
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Re: STiD, Kirk and the Abrams Team

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Like I said before, some fans think it's a religion, with a founding moment that can't be violated, ever.
This continues to sound quite crazy every time you repeat it, BTW. Just FYI. Also of a piece with stuff like this:

It seems that the Star Wars franchise has the same kind of fans that we hate in the Star Trek trilogy that hate the new movies.
I'm not sure what you mean by "we," but I for one am glad that really few Trek BBSers are nuts enough to actually hate someone for having different tastes than theirs. That would be like me saying I "hate" you for liking AbramsTrek -- that would sound a bit nuts, wouldn't it?

What 'prequel debacle'?
I think that was the one where the movies mostly sucked, despite being profitable. You see, sometimes a thing can be a financial success but an artistic failure, which means people don't look on it with fondness after having shelled out their hard-earned to watch it. (And if you can't conceive of a way that might happen that doesn't involve those people being crazy religious fanatics out to piss in your cornflakes, it's likely that the problem is you.)
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