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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old December 15 2013, 03:35 AM   #121
Sindatur
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

DWF wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post

The Doctor should know that it's his last life shouldn't he? And you're no one knew at the time, that's the real explaination.
Of course the Doctor knew, I'm not understanding the point you're making? Might not be forefront in his mind though, since he kept The War Doctor buried.
His inability to regenerate not in the forefront of his mind? I can't wait for your reaction the Christmas special.
You misunderstand, I'm saying his first impulse might have been that he might be able to Regenerate from the poison (for like a half second. You know, like in the beginning when someone important to you dies, or you break up with someone, and something big or funny happens, your first impulse is "I gotta tell so and so about this"... until you remember you can't a second later)
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Old December 15 2013, 03:45 AM   #122
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Sindatur wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Of course the Doctor knew, I'm not understanding the point you're making? Might not be forefront in his mind though, since he kept The War Doctor buried.
His inability to regenerate not in the forefront of his mind? I can't wait for your reaction the Christmas special.
You misunderstand, I'm saying his first impulse might have been that he might be able to Regenerate from the poison (for like a half second. You know, like in the beginning when someone important to you dies, or you break up with someone, and something big or funny happens, your first impulse is "I gotta tell so and so about this"... until you remember you can't a second later)
That'd work if he didn't know he was going to die at Lake Silencio, but he know ahead of time and that's he replaced himself with the Teselecta.
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Old December 15 2013, 05:35 AM   #123
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

I think this has been suggested before, but most of these problems go away if the Doctor himself didn't think that the metacrisis regeneration counted until recently (perhaps after having been to Trenzalore?) After all, he would have known about the War Doctor, but evidently no one else did, so "fall of the eleventh" still makes sense. When the teselecta appears to regenerate, it does so because the Doctor assumed he would. When River poisons him, neither the Doctor nor the Silence know that he has used up his regenerations, hence the poison being thought necessary. Of course, he still has some regeneration energy left as of "Angels Take Manhattan", but perhaps not enough to fully regenerate?
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Old December 15 2013, 06:37 AM   #124
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

The prevailing theory is that the Doctor thinks he can't regenerate in Time of the Doctor, but is surprised when does.

I agree with DWF that Smith being the 13th is a fairly recent idea. The other stuff just contradicts it.

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Old December 15 2013, 12:32 PM   #125
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Spocktapus wrote: View Post
Of course, he still has some regeneration energy left as of "Angels Take Manhattan", but perhaps not enough to fully regenerate?
or perhaps using that tiny bit of regeneration energy is the tipping point after the half regeneration/meta crisis, hence River being so angry at him.
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Old December 15 2013, 03:41 PM   #126
Alidar Jarok
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

For what it's worth, I agree that Steven Moffat didn't think this was the last regeneration when he created the scenes for Lake Silencio. My guess is he figured it out either after he decided to create John Hurt's character or he figured it out when he figured out what Trenzalore was. In either case, that happened around the same time.

It doesn't mean it's impossible to explain away the previous examples that might be inconsistent in a way that shows it's not inconsistent at all (in fact, no one should take Doctor Who so seriously as to refuse to accept that it's not consistent), but that doesn't mean Moffat had a master plan related to regenerations since the beginning (he didn't even know when Matt Smith was leaving since the beginning, after all).
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Old December 15 2013, 05:05 PM   #127
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Timewar on X-Mas wrote: View Post
Spocktapus wrote: View Post
Of course, he still has some regeneration energy left as of "Angels Take Manhattan", but perhaps not enough to fully regenerate?
or perhaps using that tiny bit of regeneration energy is the tipping point after the half regeneration/meta crisis,
Honestly thinking about it I can't see how the meta crisis wouldn't count as he didn't just shove the regeneration energy back into his body he put it in his hand jar away from him and it made another doctor later so its pretty much been used up.
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Old December 15 2013, 08:03 PM   #128
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

I presumed the regeneration energy he user on River was like the 10 years of his life he gave to the TARDIS in The Rise of the Cybermen?
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Old December 17 2013, 05:56 PM   #129
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Ithink this should put an end to the speculation over Eccleston's possible role in the anniversary special and the creation of the war Doctor.

In the latest DWM, Moffat confirms that Eccleston would have filled what became John Hurt’s role: “Yes, but I was pretty certain Chris wouldn’t do it, although he did agree to a couple of meetings. So instead we had the challenge and excitement of introducing a BBC audience to a brand new Doctor.”

Asked if it would have been Eccleston ending the Time War instead: “Yes, but do you know, I was always nervous of that one, because it doesn’t fit with [2005's] Rose at all.

“[Eccleston] is a brand new Doctor in Rose, he’s absolutely, definitely new. It couldn’t have been is who pushed the button in the Time War, cos that’s a new man, very explicitly, in that episode. I also had trouble, I have to be honest, imagining it being Paul McGann’s Doctor.

“So all of this led me to the idea that if you’re going to sell to the Not-We audience a Doctor who essentially they haven’t seen before, then you have a freer hand than saying it has to be one of the ones you’ve already had. And it was predicated in getting an enormous star to be able to do it. We got John Hurt, so that was cool! Think of the fuss it’s created for us!”
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Old December 17 2013, 09:48 PM   #130
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Hmmm...Strange. I agree, it definitely doesn't seem like it would've worked with Eccelston. Although I would have loved to see Eccelston in it, I'm glad he wasn't in The War Doctor Role, because it wouldn't have fit, based upon what we saw onscreen for the Special
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Old December 17 2013, 10:09 PM   #131
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

The special was of course written after Eccleston turned down the chance to be in it.
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Old December 17 2013, 10:50 PM   #132
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

DWF wrote: View Post
As I said it's obvious the idea of Smith's Doctor being the last one is a fairly recent one, as a poster on Gallifrey Base pointed out.

Why is there a need to nullify his ability to regenerate when hes poisoned in Lets Kill Hitler?

Why does River Song tell him off for using some of his regneration energy to mend her hand in Angels take manhattan?

Why does he START to regenerate after the first shot he takes from the 'impossible astronaut'?
For whatever reasons Moffat moved the goalposts again probably because it's the anniversary year and he just wanted to set up the next 50 years.
Was it ever actually stated that the poison that River used on the Doctor inhibited his ability to regenerate? When the Doctor asks the TARDIS interface he is merely told that his regeneration is disabled without further clarification; that could easily be because he doesn't have enough energy left to do so.

Also the Doctor may not be aware of how many lives he has left, but River Song probably does having studied the Doctor's various lives, she just can't tell him. So in that scene she lambastes the Doctor for using what remains of his regeneration energy to heal her wrist.

The final one is easily explained as it is the Teselecta that is simulating the regeneration effect.
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Old December 17 2013, 11:23 PM   #133
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

Captain_Amasov wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
As I said it's obvious the idea of Smith's Doctor being the last one is a fairly recent one, as a poster on Gallifrey Base pointed out.

Why is there a need to nullify his ability to regenerate when hes poisoned in Lets Kill Hitler?

Why does River Song tell him off for using some of his regneration energy to mend her hand in Angels take manhattan?

Why does he START to regenerate after the first shot he takes from the 'impossible astronaut'?
For whatever reasons Moffat moved the goalposts again probably because it's the anniversary year and he just wanted to set up the next 50 years.
Was it ever actually stated that the poison that River used on the Doctor inhibited his ability to regenerate? When the Doctor asks the TARDIS interface he is merely told that his regeneration is disabled without further clarification; that could easily be because he doesn't have enough energy left to do so.

Also the Doctor may not be aware of how many lives he has left, but River Song probably does having studied the Doctor's various lives, she just can't tell him. So in that scene she lambastes the Doctor for using what remains of his regeneration energy to heal her wrist.

The final one is easily explained as it is the Teselecta that is simulating the regeneration effect.
River told him when she poisoned him that he couldn't regenerate. And the Doctor was in the Teselectra and he should know that couldn't regenerate.
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Old December 17 2013, 11:32 PM   #134
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

DWF wrote: View Post
Captain_Amasov wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
As I said it's obvious the idea of Smith's Doctor being the last one is a fairly recent one, as a poster on Gallifrey Base pointed out.

For whatever reasons Moffat moved the goalposts again probably because it's the anniversary year and he just wanted to set up the next 50 years.
Was it ever actually stated that the poison that River used on the Doctor inhibited his ability to regenerate? When the Doctor asks the TARDIS interface he is merely told that his regeneration is disabled without further clarification; that could easily be because he doesn't have enough energy left to do so.

Also the Doctor may not be aware of how many lives he has left, but River Song probably does having studied the Doctor's various lives, she just can't tell him. So in that scene she lambastes the Doctor for using what remains of his regeneration energy to heal her wrist.

The final one is easily explained as it is the Teselecta that is simulating the regeneration effect.
River told him when she poisoned him that he couldn't regenerate. And the Doctor was in the Teselectra and he should know that couldn't regenerate.
Except she didn't; why else would the Doctor, after being poisoned and entering the TARDIS, say: "So, basically better regenerate, that's what you're saying", after he was told by the TARDIS interface that the poison had no known cure, only to be then told: "Regeneration disabled. You will be dead in thirty two minutes", by the interface. There's an assumption that one caused the other to not work, but the statements aren't necessarily directly linked other than by the current circumstances that had arisen.

It was a light show put on by the Teselecta to sell the idea that the Doctor was about to die to everyone else who didn't know, what else would everyone outside the Teselecta expect to see if a Time Lord was mortally wounded?

Last edited by Captain_Amasov; December 18 2013 at 12:23 AM.
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Old December 17 2013, 11:35 PM   #135
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Re: A thought on regenerations (spoilers for "Night/Day of the Doctor"

DWF wrote: View Post
The special was of course written after Eccleston turned down the chance to be in it.
I read he'd written the outlines for both the possibility of Eccleston returned and the one not.

Anyway, I don't quite believe Moffat there. Eccleston as the War Doctor? Unlikely. Unless it was the Ninth early on, and like, a day or two after his regeneration.

But really, if any previous Doctor were to do this, it'd be Paul McGann. Can't see why it'd have been so difficult for him to realize this - the War Doctor himself was pretty Doctor-ish in behaviour, too.

Then again... it WAS stunt casting, so it makes sense.
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