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Old December 17 2013, 01:54 AM   #31
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

Christopher wrote: View Post
And male bodies get things "added" to them as well during puberty. In addition to the obvious changes in the genitalia, they gain greater height and muscle mass, a stronger jawline, extra body hair, in many cases a tendency toward more abdominal fat, etc. That's no more "neutral" than the female form. The closest thing there is to a neutral human shape would be that of a preadolescent.
Well, that's kind of related to my point about robots not having penises. I'd submit that many aren't dramatically different from preadolescents. I really don't think it matters either way. There's no reason why a robot couldn't be female. It's only weird/strange if you fetishized it, but there's no reason one has to.
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Old December 17 2013, 02:02 AM   #32
Kai "the spy"
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

Christopher wrote: View Post
CmdrAJD wrote: View Post
I was really annoyed to read what he had to say about the Tower Prep cancellation. My wife, daughter, son, and I all enjoyed the show, which was somehow a problem for CN? "AHHH! Adults and girls like this show! Quick, cancel it!"
Yeah, it's irrationally narrow-minded. "We're not appealing to the one group we want to sell products to, so we'll cancel the show." Even though they clearly were appealing to other audiences -- so why not just get new sponsors that wanted those audiences? They were succeeding, but not in the specific way they wanted, so they counted it as a failure? That makes no sense.
It's not just cartoons and adults/girls where TV execs seem to have a problem.

Both "Boston Legal" and "Harry's Law" were cancelled despite critical acclaim, several emmy awards and good ratings, simply because the audience was "too old".

David E. Kelley had to fight to get a short fifth season for BL, where he addressed the problem in the episode "Juiced".
There, he had Betty White and David Larroquette sue TV networks for not creating programs for people over 50.
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Old December 17 2013, 02:04 AM   #33
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Well, that's kind of related to my point about robots not having penises. I'd submit that many aren't dramatically different from preadolescents. I really don't think it matters either way. There's no reason why a robot couldn't be female. It's only weird/strange if you fetishized it, but there's no reason one has to.
Indeed, and that's basically my point. Fictional robots aren't male because it's somehow "neutral," but because the creators of the fiction (and sometimes their creators in-story) choose to give them a gendered identity.

So it's a double standard to call it strange when a Transformer is female but normal for one to have a male identity. They're both equally strange, or equally okay; but either way, neither one is a neutral choice.
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Old December 17 2013, 02:09 AM   #34
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

I don't think I'll ever be able to wrap my mind around the way TV execs think. I know the main 18-49 demo is important for network shows, but you would think they would just be happy that people are watching their shows.
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
To be fair, it's not like "male" robots have penises or anything.
But according to Michael Bay they do have testicles.
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Old December 17 2013, 02:22 AM   #35
Christopher
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

JD wrote: View Post
I don't think I'll ever be able to wrap my mind around the way TV execs think. I know the main 18-49 demo is important for network shows, but you would think they would just be happy that people are watching their shows.
But their thinking is that a different show in the same time slot might be better at drawing the demographic they want. For them it's not just about an individual show, it's about whether that show is contributing enough to the overall schedule, and whether they think a different show could do better.

Although it does have a lot to do with how they define the goals of the network overall. Unfortunately, the CN executives apparently believe that goal is to sell toys to young boys as efficiently as possible, rather than having broad appeal and critical acclaim. Granted, I've heard a lot of critical praise of some of their shows like Adventure Time (though I could never get into that), so there's still room for good shows, but only if they're aimed at young male viewers. Which is why CN has become such a hostile environment for shows that we older types enjoy.
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Old December 17 2013, 02:26 AM   #36
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
And male bodies get things "added" to them as well during puberty. In addition to the obvious changes in the genitalia, they gain greater height and muscle mass, a stronger jawline, extra body hair, in many cases a tendency toward more abdominal fat, etc. That's no more "neutral" than the female form. The closest thing there is to a neutral human shape would be that of a preadolescent.
Well, that's kind of related to my point about robots not having penises. I'd submit that many aren't dramatically different from preadolescents. I really don't think it matters either way. There's no reason why a robot couldn't be female. It's only weird/strange if you fetishized it, but there's no reason one has to.
But why would anyone add boobies to a robot?
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Old December 17 2013, 02:52 AM   #37
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

In the cartoon the origin of the autobots' started as a line of manufactured consumers goods.
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Old December 17 2013, 02:55 AM   #38
Christopher
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

^Which cartoon? There have been so many Transformers continuities.
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Old December 17 2013, 02:56 AM   #39
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

G1.
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Old December 17 2013, 03:19 AM   #40
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

JD wrote: View Post
But according to Michael Bay they do have testicles.
Heinrad, being a Japanese-exclusive character, actually does.
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Old December 17 2013, 03:40 AM   #41
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
And male bodies get things "added" to them as well during puberty. In addition to the obvious changes in the genitalia, they gain greater height and muscle mass, a stronger jawline, extra body hair, in many cases a tendency toward more abdominal fat, etc. That's no more "neutral" than the female form. The closest thing there is to a neutral human shape would be that of a preadolescent.
Well, that's kind of related to my point about robots not having penises. I'd submit that many aren't dramatically different from preadolescents. I really don't think it matters either way. There's no reason why a robot couldn't be female. It's only weird/strange if you fetishized it, but there's no reason one has to.
But why would anyone add boobies to a robot?
A) What difference would it make if they did
B) Why are you calling breasts "boobies"? Are you 12?
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Old December 17 2013, 04:38 AM   #42
TayLaLaLa
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

Girls want Justin Bieber, One Direction & Miley Cyrus dolls. Possibly Katy Perry & Lady Gaga Dolls.
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Old December 17 2013, 04:50 AM   #43
Christopher
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

^That's the stereotype, but real-life girls have rather broader tastes, I gather. Lots of girls are interested in playing with "boy" toys; it's just societal peer (and adult and corporate) pressure that deters them and tries to force them into "proper" feminine molds.
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Old December 17 2013, 03:18 PM   #44
JarodRussell
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
But why would anyone add boobies to a robot?
A) What difference would it make if they did
B) Why are you calling breasts "boobies"? Are you 12?
A) When you're constructing a robot, waste of material for example.
B) Why, do you have a problem with it? Boobies, boobies, boobies, boobies, boobies, boobies.
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Old December 17 2013, 04:16 PM   #45
Peach Wookiee
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Re: Paul Dini: Superhero Cartoon Producers don't want girl viewers

Unwrapped wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
But according to Michael Bay they do have testicles.
Heinrad, being a Japanese-exclusive character, actually does.
Two words... Kiss Players.
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