RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,940
Posts: 5,479,038
Members: 25,057
Currently online: 456
Newest member: JeremiahJT

TrekToday headlines

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Trek Actors In War Of The Worlds Fundraiser
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Star Trek: The Next Generation Gag Reel Tease
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Shatner In Haven
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 16 2013, 02:26 AM   #136
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
They should have gotten rid of Jadzia long before. If they HAD to have a Dax trill character, Ezri was a lot more interesting than somebody who had done everything, knew everything, and was just so damn PERFECT.
I utterly and totally and magically and wonderfully agree with you
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16 2013, 03:22 AM   #137
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

teacake wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
They should have gotten rid of Jadzia long before. If they HAD to have a Dax trill character, Ezri was a lot more interesting than somebody who had done everything, knew everything, and was just so damn PERFECT.
I utterly and totally and magically and wonderfully agree with you
Bunch of haters!

Dax was a fan boys dream character come true.
Hot
High ranking diplomat
Best friend too the Captain
Hot
Buddy/Buddy with the First Officer & the shady Ferengi
Honorary Klingon
Could kick ass
Hot
Flew the starship
Well respected
Did I mention being hot?

What's not to like?
She's us.

Lynx wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
borgboy wrote: View Post

That's on the writers, as I think Kes was an interesting character with lots of story potential. Our Lynx wrote a Kes centered unpublished Voyager novel. I don't think a good writer would have that hard a time coming up with the occasional Kes centered story. Then again, they kept Harry and he rarely got any memorable stories focusing on him.
Lynx is writing stories in retrospect.
It's easy to write a good story if you're rewriting what's been done.
Lynx is not part of a soapbox of 5 writers in a room each with 5 stories/ideas each week that may or may not be better than the 3 ideas/stories about Kes.
Having ideas for one or two Kes based stories doesn't compare with having to have 3 new ones to present for consideration every week, for 4 months.

Say what you want but those writers were good enough to beat out hundreds of other writers and their get their stories made into TV episodes.

You Kes fans wanna point fingers and accuse TPTB to purposely doing things against you(Fury) but you don't even have a clue how their job works.
In fact, I do have a lot of clues how their job works.

Right now I'm going through DS9, which I haven't had the opportunity to watch all episodes of due to stupid policy of a certain station where I live. Now I've bought the whole series on DVD and I'm in season 3 now.

What strikes me is how the DS9 writers didn't have any problem with writing for ALL characters. They even managed to add Worf later on.

Obviously they had no problem to write for certain characters and were obviously doing their job.

As for me, I'm far from being an expert. But give me a contract and a decent payment and I could probably come up with some good Kes stories in a short amount of time.
DS9 is written in a completely different format than Voyager. One is arc based the other episodic.

You've only watched 3 seasons, so you're wrong in you're assumption about the DS9 writers not having a problem writing for all the characters. Jake Sisko.

Cirroc Lofton is credited in a starring role.
The writers openly admitted to dropping the ball with his character by not developing nearly as well as the rest of the cast. Worf was added to the cast to boost ratings in hopes of bring TNG viewers into DS9, much like Voyager did by adding Seven of Nine to improve theirs.

However, I'm sure you're good at writing the fanfic stories for Kes you do.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

Last edited by exodus; December 16 2013 at 03:48 AM.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16 2013, 04:00 AM   #138
Timewalker
Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady
 
Timewalker's Avatar
 
Location: In many different universes, simultaneously.
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

exodus wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
They should have gotten rid of Jadzia long before. If they HAD to have a Dax trill character, Ezri was a lot more interesting than somebody who had done everything, knew everything, and was just so damn PERFECT.
I utterly and totally and magically and wonderfully agree with you
Bunch of haters!

Dax was a fan boys dream character come true.
Hot
High ranking diplomat
Best friend too the Captain
Hot
Buddy/Buddy with the First Officer & the shady Ferengi
Honorary Klingon
Could kick ass
Hot
Flew the starship
Well respected
Did I mention being hot?

What's not to like?
She's us.
I don't happen to be a "fanboy."

Interesting characters have flaws and weaknesses. Jadzia didn't have any of those. She was Perfect in a really annoying way.

Plus, after I read an interview where the actress was bitching about the secondary characters getting storylines - in some cases storylines a hell of a lot more interesting than those of the main characters, I was really, really happy when she got killed off.
__________________
"Let's give it to Riker. He'll eat anything!"

For some great Original Series fanfic, check out the Valjiir Continuum!
Timewalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16 2013, 10:20 AM   #139
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

exodus wrote: View Post
Dax was a fan boys dream character come true.
Hot
High ranking diplomat
Best friend too the Captain
Hot
Buddy/Buddy with the First Officer & the shady Ferengi
Honorary Klingon
Could kick ass
Hot
Flew the starship
Well respected
Did I mention being hot?

What's not to like?
She's us.
She's you. I'm much more like Ezri in every way.

And that is why Ezri is hotter

See: doppleganger fantasy.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16 2013, 10:44 PM   #140
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

exodus wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
They should have gotten rid of Jadzia long before. If they HAD to have a Dax trill character, Ezri was a lot more interesting than somebody who had done everything, knew everything, and was just so damn PERFECT.
I utterly and totally and magically and wonderfully agree with you
Bunch of haters!

Dax was a fan boys dream character come true.
Hot
High ranking diplomat
Best friend too the Captain
Hot
Buddy/Buddy with the First Officer & the shady Ferengi
Honorary Klingon
Could kick ass
Hot
Flew the starship
Well respected
Did I mention being hot?

What's not to like?
She's us.

Lynx wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Lynx is writing stories in retrospect.
It's easy to write a good story if you're rewriting what's been done.
Lynx is not part of a soapbox of 5 writers in a room each with 5 stories/ideas each week that may or may not be better than the 3 ideas/stories about Kes.
Having ideas for one or two Kes based stories doesn't compare with having to have 3 new ones to present for consideration every week, for 4 months.

Say what you want but those writers were good enough to beat out hundreds of other writers and their get their stories made into TV episodes.

You Kes fans wanna point fingers and accuse TPTB to purposely doing things against you(Fury) but you don't even have a clue how their job works.
In fact, I do have a lot of clues how their job works.

Right now I'm going through DS9, which I haven't had the opportunity to watch all episodes of due to stupid policy of a certain station where I live. Now I've bought the whole series on DVD and I'm in season 3 now.

What strikes me is how the DS9 writers didn't have any problem with writing for ALL characters. They even managed to add Worf later on.

Obviously they had no problem to write for certain characters and were obviously doing their job.

As for me, I'm far from being an expert. But give me a contract and a decent payment and I could probably come up with some good Kes stories in a short amount of time.
DS9 is written in a completely different format than Voyager. One is arc based the other episodic.

You've only watched 3 seasons, so you're wrong in you're assumption about the DS9 writers not having a problem writing for all the characters. Jake Sisko.

Cirroc Lofton is credited in a starring role.
The writers openly admitted to dropping the ball with his character by not developing nearly as well as the rest of the cast. Worf was added to the cast to boost ratings in hopes of bring TNG viewers into DS9, much like Voyager did by adding Seven of Nine to improve theirs.

However, I'm sure you're good at writing the fanfic stories for Kes you do.
Well, at least they didn't dump Jake Sisko, they didn't turn him into a psycho who were planning to kill everybody on the station, including his father and they didn't turn him into a whimpy wreck determined to go home to Earth to live in a cave either. Not to mention that they didn't dump anyone when Worf was brought in.

The sad thing was that they killed of Dax. I don't know if the actress wanted to quit or not, there are some who claim it was a contract conflict. Whatever, they shouldn't have killed off the character. They could have had her sent on some mission somewhere (maybe to find Voyager) and brought in Ezri without the "Dax" connection.

There should be a "Bobby Ewing rule": Don't kill off a main character, you'll never know if you have to bring the character back.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at:http://www.lynx677.tk/
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16 2013, 11:04 PM   #141
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

Terry was offered a spot on the new Ted Danson comedy "Becker" and she assumed that it was going to be as big as Cheers and that she in turn would become as big as Sheklley Long or Kirstie Ally.

Now why she left Becker half way through it's run, I have no idea.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2013, 02:23 PM   #142
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

What would have been hilarious is if the coffee machine had exploded and randomly killed the character.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17 2013, 06:59 PM   #143
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

Or if she was fatally shot during a mugging from a drifter played by Mark Alaimo.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2013, 12:10 AM   #144
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

Yes! A hugely missed opportunity.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2013, 03:53 AM   #145
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

Lynx wrote: View Post

Well, at least they didn't dump Jake Sisko, they didn't turn him into a psycho who were planning to kill everybody on the station, including his father and they didn't turn him into a whimpy wreck determined to go home to Earth to live in a cave either.
That would be incorrect. "The Reckoning" & "The Visitor" or "Nor the Battle to the Strong" both of those things happened to Jake.
Not to mention that they didn't dump anyone when Worf was brought in.
No need to mention it, before Worf joined DS9 only had 8 main cast members allowing them the budget to add one more.

The sad thing was that they killed of Dax. I don't know if the actress wanted to quit or not, there are some who claim it was a contract conflict. Whatever, they shouldn't have killed off the character. They could have had her sent on some mission somewhere (maybe to find Voyager) and brought in Ezri without the "Dax" connection.

There should be a "Bobby Ewing rule": Don't kill off a main character, you'll never know if you have to bring the character back.
As a big fan of Jadzia Dax while I was sad to see her go, I accept the character is dead and have no problems with main characters being killed off on the programs I watch especially since death of main characters on TV shows is becoming more & more common.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
I don't happen to be a "fanboy."
Yes, I know. Nobody ever is and yet, here we are on the biggest Trek fan boy site.

Interesting characters have flaws and weaknesses. Jadzia didn't have any of those. She was Perfect in a really annoying way.

Plus, after I read an interview where the actress was bitching about the secondary characters getting storylines - in some cases storylines a hell of a lot more interesting than those of the main characters, I was really, really happy when she got killed off.
As I said, Hater.

teacake wrote: View Post

She's you. I'm much more like Ezri in every way.

And that is why Ezri is hotter

See: doppleganger fantasy.
If you find psycho train wrecks hot.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

Last edited by exodus; December 18 2013 at 04:22 AM.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2013, 04:48 AM   #146
JirinPanthosa
Rear Admiral
 
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

I liked Jadzia, I don't get all the hate for her on this forum. She wasn't the most essential character on the show, but I think a character who already had hundreds of years of a developed personality was welcome divergence from the average TV character.

I don't mind killing off characters but I hate it when they kill off characters based on contracts expiring. Just that knowledge for the reason the character died diminishes the immersion of the show and reminds you that this fictional world you've invested in is subject to real world economics. And the particular way they killed Jadzia really sucked, it was just kind of random.

IMO, if characters die on a show, it should flow naturally from the plot, instead of the usual case where it feels like it's either contract-based or a marketing tactic.

I remember when that episode first aired, the commercial "ONE OF THESE PEOPLE WILL NOT SURVIVE THE EPISODE!" No, that's stupid. If you want to kill off a character just let it happen naturally. Let it be story driven, not marketing driven.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2013, 05:01 AM   #147
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

Exodus, Timewalker is perhaps suggesting that she is a Fangirl.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2013, 09:51 AM   #148
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

Anyone who uses the word "filk" in a sentence and hates at least one chunk of her chosen alt world is definitely a fangirl.

I'm just saying this to get in quick in case Timewalker denies being a fangirl because she is so a fangirl

Which she should be proud of!
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2013, 10:58 AM   #149
2takesfrakes
Commodore
 
2takesfrakes's Avatar
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

Terry Farrell as Jadzia Dax is not perfect, but ... she's perfect for me.
__________________
"― Only in the hottest years this happens. And this year, it grows hot. We begin finding our men. We found them sometimes without their skins... and sometimes much, much worse."
2takesfrakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18 2013, 11:13 AM   #150
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

Too bad Dukat killed her then, BWAHAHAHAHA
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:47 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.